Thread: 'Honemeister' should not be based...

...on post count, because this one term has a special meaning for newbies: It's what people on SRP and other forums use to denote 'guys newbies should contact to get their razor honed'. And post count does not reflect that.

We could come up with another term for 'guys you should contact to get your razor honed', but it's a lot easier to just come up with another term for 'guys with > 100 posts on SRP'.

I'm in complete agreement. I haven't felt comfortable having that term applied to me since I'm obviously still a newbie myself.

As a newbie myself I agree. If someone wants to PM a "real" honemeister, to ask for services, or advice, or whatever, they should know that the person they are sending it to is just that.

Steven

Thanks for opening the thread guys.

Maybe it's just me... I guess I'm having one of those 'old and crotchety' days... but it only took me maybe two visits to the site after I joined to realize that the "Rank" (which is what the vBulletin forum software calls it) of "Honemeister" had no relationship to the capability called "honemeister". Nor did I think the members with Barber and Shaver ranks were that, either. You guys can continue to make this a problem, or you can simply ignore it... it's your choice. As I said, we'll change them some day... and then you can complain about those

Ranks are something that are intended to be lighthearted and fun... not something that is based on reality. We have members with over a thousand posts that have never successfully honed a razor to a state of excellence. We have members with zero posts that are honemeisters in all sense of the word... they just have chosen to not participate in our discussions. We have people perceived to be a honemeister that can't reliably hone razors to acceptable levels. I'd bet we have members with over a thousand posts that don't even shave on a regular basis with a str8... I'd even bet some people we think of as honemeisters don't shave with a str8 on a regular basis. There's no valid correlation between any of these "rank" names and number of posts. So what? You see, the fact that you're having a problem with this is that you're unwilling to let go of it... even knowing it doesn't mean anything. Surely you have better and more important battles to expend your energy on. If you're so worried about protecting the poor newbie, put a sticky thread in the Newbie Forum and explain the facts of life to them.

Look, the easiest solution would be to simply turn off Ranks altogether. But I can guarantee you that as soon as "honemeister" disappears there'll be screams for it's return... especially for those individuals that actually ARE honemeisters, whatever that means. (Exactly what does honemeister mean, btw. I certainly can't define it in PRECISE terms. And certainly not ones that are post count related)

Haven't given in yet and wanna play games with this... pick a name for a rank... anything you can think of that is remotely meaningful to str8 razors and shaving. Now, tell us how many posts someone would need to be undisputedly deserving of that name. Maybe I'm stupid, but every time I start down this what-if path I come up pretty empty handed... you see, I can't see ANY valid correlation between barbers, shavers, honers, honemeisters, or anything else I can think of and NUMBER OF POSTS. Ok, so pick something that's not shaving related... try member, sr. member, principal member, member emeritus, whatever.... so, how many posts make a sr. member? The problem here is that even "sr. member" will connote to others an implied level of knowledge, etc. that doesn't correlate to NUMBER OF POSTS.

I've been a member of several other sites that opened this pandora's box about Ranks... every time it turned into the biggest pissing contest you can imagine. Not because people were ill willed... they mostly were all intent on helping solve the "problem". But there really is no solution other than just accepting the frivolity of Ranks. Every one of those site owners eventually became dictatorial and just assigned a set of names and/or ignored all further complaints.

My suggestion is spend your time worrying about what gift your giving that special someone for the holidays... you'll get a better return on your investment.

Originally Posted by azjoe

Thanks for opening the thread guys.

We have members with over a thousand posts that have never successfully honed a razor to a state of excellence.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Originally Posted by nerobot

As a newbie myself I agree. If someone wants to PM a "real" honemeister, to ask for services, or advice, or whatever, they should know that the person they are sending it to is just that.

Steven

For newbies, the best approach is to read and search for answers to your questions. If you don't find the answer, then post it... chances are if you have the question, so do many others... this is a community, so share the knowledge. We were all newbies at some point, so if you're afraid you'll embarrass yourself by posting, don't be... the only one worrying about that is you. More importantly, even experts disagree... so if you post you'll get a variety of answers and approaches instead of just one man's opinion (be they an expert or not).

In general, forums work far better when there is minimal PM'ing... after all, the searchable knowledge base is vested in the posts, not private PMs. (Obviously, I'm referring to PMs asking for technical help... not those used for personal chit chat and sensitive topics such as fees, etc.) Friendships and alliances are built in the posts, not the PMs.

just my $.02

Originally Posted by JLStorm

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Now I didn't blow your cover... almost 20 other members have >1000 posts.

And for what it's worth, we have about 375 members that have never made a single post.

God Joe, lighten up on the guy. I don't think mparker is saying anything negative about ANY post count related rank or whatever you mods and admins decide to call them. He's simply asking that those folks who DO actually offer professional honing services have something that easily identifies them as such and pointing out the fact that the term "honemeister" does, in fact, appear to imply just that.

I've got to agree with the original post. Is someone's rank going to bring about the Apocalypse? No, of course not but how hard would it be to have something ... anything ... that would easily identify those folks who offer such a critical service to those of us just getting started with straights? Doesn't have to be a rank as such - maybe a different color to their screen names, some sort of icon by their names - just about any notation would work. It's all about helping folks make that first shaving experience a good one.
Jack

Originally Posted by azjoe

Maybe it's just me... I guess I'm having one of those 'old and crotchety' days... but it only took me maybe two visits to the site after I joined to realize that the "Rank" (which is what the vBulletin forum software calls it) of "Honemeister" had no relationship to the capability called "honemeister".

It's true that people realize this very quickly. But if they've been told to get to SRP and contact a honemeister, this doesn't help them much.

How to find a honemeister (currently):
1: "Is there anybody here that can hone my razor?"
2: "You need to go to SRP and get a honemeister."
3: "Wow there are a bunch of them, which one do I want?"
4: "Is there anybody here that can hone my razor?"
5: "You need to talk to lynn or randy or joe."
6: "WTF are these people and where do I find them?"
7: "PM ...., ....., or ....."

versus:
1: "Is there anybody here that can hone my razor?"
2: "You need to go to SRP and get a honemeister."
3: "Oh, here's one. (right click on name and send PM)."


As for the previous poster: There is already something that the other forums and SRP have agreed on to identify those who are available to hone razors: 'honemeister'. It's just that the forum rank obscures just who those honemeisters really are.

azjoe: I've got no problem with ranks, I wasn't the least bit confused by barber, shaver, etc, heck B&B has a labyrinth of ranks, it seems every time I log in there I've got another rank. It's just that 'honemeister' has achieved a special meaning elsewhere in the shaving community -- this meaning may well have originated from the SRP honemeister post-count rank, but it's achieved a meaning beyond the 100-post-count that the SRP rank means, so we should seriously consider adjusting the SRP rank scheme to conform to its exogenous meaning.

edit:
Maybe 'honemeister-for-hire'? or some such?

Originally Posted by maclean3

God Joe, lighten up ... how hard would it be to have something ... anything ... that would easily identify those folks who offer such a critical service to those of us just getting started with straights?

As I said, maybe I'm stupid... but I DON'T see it easy at all to qualify the individual you really seek. Can YOU precisely identify the characteristics of a "honemeister" in MEASURABLE terms? Can ANYONE? Let's say that it could be done... how would you then propose we test the individual to determine if (s)he qualifies? Exactly what should be tested and who is going to administer and grade the test? It's easy to wave our arms and talk in generalities, but when a precise and reliable system has to be put in place to do some of these things, it's not so easy I'm afraid.

If you want a published list of people who offer honing services for hire...

• JLStorm has been actively asking vendors to add their names to a vendor's list.
• There is a "link" item on the main site's menu that lists a ton of vendors.
• If you spend some time reading and doing searches here in the forum you'll see who has recently been successfully honing razors for others.
• If you posted the question I'd bet you get 1)some responses (both posted and PM'd) that offer to help you (some for free, some for a fee), and 2)some responses that refer you to known quality people.

No matter how/where you get the info, the biggest problem you'll have is that people come and go at this... here today, gone tomorrow. They get bored and move on to other things, they get a new job, they get married, etc., etc., etc.

See... it just isn't always as neat and tidy and easy as you might think.