Thread: Can stropping by itself make a razor pass the HHT?

Originally Posted by honedright

Yes. All of my razors have passed the HHT after stropping only.
Scott

I presume you never bought a razor on ebay or in an antique shop but only brand new ones. How do you get rid of chips/nicks/rusty bits etc. on the edge only using a strop?

Originally Posted by Kees

I presume you never bought a razor on ebay or in an antique shop but only brand new ones. How do you get rid of chips/nicks/rusty bits etc. on the edge only using a strop?

Maybe there was some confusion from the original question?

I didn't say I don't hone my razors! I don't always (in fact rarely) pass HHT off of the hone. In fact I usually don't even check for HHT off of the hone (I use the thumb nail test while honing). But I often test for HHT off of the strop (and I usually perform the thumb pad test as well after stropping).

I interpreted the question as "can a razor that won't pass the HHT now (assuming the razor had been honed at some time) be made to pass the HHT with stropping only." I can take a razor that may have been honed, for instance 6 months ago, and had passed the HHT, and had been shaving nicely, but now will not pass the HHT. With stropping only, I can bring that razor back to HHT sharpness. That's how I was answering the question.

If the question was "can a dull or damaged razor be made HHT sharp by stropping alone" I would have answered probably not. Although I might consider it possible only after inspecting the razor and even giving it a try.

Also, most of my razors are antique store finds or from ebay. Some have had very minor dings and chips.

Hope that clears things up.


Scott

Originally Posted by Kees

Whatever way you move the razor across the leather, at the end of the day you have to remove metal to get a sharp edge...

With all due respect, I question this assumption. What is happening when you dull it with a shave? Is that removing the metal at the edge? If so, then wet, lubricated hair and skin is removing the metal. Hmmm. If the wet hair and skin doesn't remove metal to dull it, what does it do? Perhaps it just misshapes it. If so, isn't it possible then, that an untreated strop can reshape it?

Isn't it possible that the final razor's edge is a delicate edge that can be shaped by stropping even without removing metal? An edge that's delicate enought that wet whiskers dull it as they misshape it?

Just thinking outside the diamond paste box.

- Dale

Originally Posted by Spokeshave

...stropping can't take an ancient, pitted eBay special to shaving sharp, and there is a lot of degrees of sharp in between that need a hone to start with.

It can, but its likely to take awhile...

I once took a Wostenholm wedge and sliced through cardboard until it was too dull to shave armhair even with pressure. It took a bit more than a thousand laps on linen before it would shave as well as it did before. That sounds like a lot, but it was only about 45 minutes of stropping - my right arm wasn't working right for a few days after though.

I don't think the leather really does much sharpening. I've tried to get moderately dull razors sharp by stropping on leather with only minor improvement after hundreds of laps. But the linen on the other hand can make dramatic improvements in the edge.

Originally Posted by Kees

I presume you never bought a razor on ebay or in an antique shop but only brand new ones. How do you get rid of chips/nicks/rusty bits etc. on the edge only using a strop?

I'm picky when selecting antique store razors. A little rust is ok, easily removed with fine steel wool and some elbow grease (never a strop). Chips? No thanks. Too much trouble when there are plenty of undamaged razors out there to choose from. And new ones too.

Scott

Originally Posted by honedright

Yes. All of my razors have passed the HHT after stropping only.


Scott

I can get a blade to pass HHT before stropping, but sometimes it becomes so sharp that it's uncomfortable to shave with...

also I tried the same approach as you are, and got some decent shaves off of my honed razors but they were far from what I would now consider shave ready. It's amazing how much of a difference you can see when you have something to compare to. and even small tricks like stropping on newspaper can help you acheve phenominal improvements when you're starting out.

If you really insist on going the hard road like this, I would highly recommend 1) Lynn's dvd 2) a 4 side paddle strop from Tony with .05 chromium and 0.25 diamond paste. 3) a really good finishing stone. I use a Kitayama 12000 grit, but I hear the Belgian yellow is just as good if not better.
That's the best advice I can offer... You can do it, but eventually you will want to have one of the honemeisters hone a razor so you can compare.

Originally Posted by honedright

I interpreted the question as "can a razor that won't pass the HHT now (assuming the razor had been honed at some time) be made to pass the HHT with stropping only." I can take a razor that may have been honed, for instance 6 months ago, and had passed the HHT, and had been shaving nicely, but now will not pass the HHT. With stropping only, I can bring that razor back to HHT sharpness. That's how I was answering the question.

If the question was "can a dull or damaged razor be made HHT sharp by stropping alone" I would have answered probably not. Although I might consider it possible only after inspecting the razor and even giving it a try.
Scott

It looks like we do agree. Thanks for clarifying this.

Originally Posted by Spokeshave

With all due respect, I question this assumption. What is happening when you dull it with a shave? Is that removing the metal at the edge? If so, then wet, lubricated hair and skin is removing the metal. Hmmm. If the wet hair and skin doesn't remove metal to dull it, what does it do? Perhaps it just misshapes it. If so, isn't it possible then, that an untreated strop can reshape it?

Isn't it possible that the final razor's edge is a delicate edge that can be shaped by stropping even without removing metal? An edge that's delicate enought that wet whiskers dull it as they misshape it?

Just thinking outside the diamond paste box.

- Dale

IMHO 2 things happen when you shave. 1: you cause misalignment of the edge, 2: you will dull the edge to some extent. If even dripping water can excavate a rock than moving a razor against the skin and across hairs will cause wear to some extent. That is why you do have to touch up a razor occasionally as the leather does not remove enough metal.

Originally Posted by Kees

IMHO 2 things happen when you shave. 1: you cause misalignment of the edge, 2: you will dull the edge to some extent. If even dripping water can excavate a rock than moving a razor against the skin and across hairs will cause wear to some extent. That is why you do have to touch up a razor occasionally as the leather does not remove enough metal.

Thanks Kees. I agree with the disctinction. Stropping aims primarily at #1, unless pasted, then it also can remove metal as you mentioned. Messages 27, 22, 13, 10 echo this distinction. Missing this distinction is what can turn a discussion of this type into unecessarily heated hone-stropping debates. We all agree razors need honing (especially old ones) and can be perfected with stropping. Our differences are in techniques, and preferences for how much of each to use and when.

- Dale

Originally Posted by Kees

Scott,

Whatever way you move the razor across the leather, at the end of the day you have to remove metal to get a sharp edge. A stroke on the leather wil remove a minimal amount of metal compared to a stroke on the hone. If your razor isn't almost shave sharp it will take you ages to get it sharp with a strop only.

I remembered this response to a post I made some time ago and had to revisit it.

Lately I've come to the conclusion that it does matter how you move the razor across the leather and the linen. It matters a lot.


Scott