Thread: Less is More when stropping?

I've been frustrated almost to the point of giving up straight razor shaving because I cannot keep an edge on a blade. It ususally starts to dull about half-way through the shave and finishes really rough -- dispite starting smooth and passiing the HHT after the hones.

Before reading this thread and The Strop is King thread I usually stropped ~20 passes before and after a shave. Usually 20 on linen after the shave and 20 on leather before the shave. Saturday and today I did 50+50 before and after shaving, finishing on the leather after reading about the micro-oxidation of the edge. Both days gave nice smooth shaves all the way to the end. And I expect that the next shave will be the same. Stropping reall is King. (at least for this week)

I speculate that the linen probably does more to clean the blade than the leather. However, I wonder of the oil of the leather strop helps to keep some of the micro-oxidation at bay as well as add a little polish to the blade. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Iron_Beard

I've been frustrated almost to the point of giving up straight razor shaving because I cannot keep an edge on a blade. It ususally starts to dull about half-way through the shave and finishes really rough -- dispite starting smooth and passiing the HHT after the hones.

Before reading this thread and The Strop is King thread I usually stropped ~20 passes before and after a shave. Usually 20 on linen after the shave and 20 on leather before the shave. Saturday and today I did 50+50 before and after shaving, finishing on the leather after reading about the micro-oxidation of the edge. Both days gave nice smooth shaves all the way to the end. And I expect that the next shave will be the same. Stropping reall is King. (at least for this week)

I speculate that the linen probably does more to clean the blade than the leather. However, I wonder of the oil of the leather strop helps to keep some of the micro-oxidation at bay as well as add a little polish to the blade. Thoughts?

this is the effect i was referring too when I said it aint hard to see that linen will sharpen the edge.

there is something more afoot if you loose so much half way. What is it; vintage? How many times have you reset the edge- resharpened it I mean?

Originally Posted by kevint

...there is something more afoot if you loose so much half way. What is it; vintage? How many times have you reset the edge- resharpened it I mean?

True enough. I have several straights that I rotate through, which has kept me from totally giving up since I don't want to touch up on a stone daily. I go through 5 or 6 then hone them all. But... I think that I've actually been honing too far and the edge is too thin and crumbles. I don't get a wire-edge. I can see that under the x200 scope. I use the Spyderco's medium, fine, and ultra stones for honing.

I did have my face professionally shaved about January of this year and the barber did comment that I had about the toughest beard he'd ever shaved.

After a high number of passes on the strop, though, the same blade lasted an entire shave and with post-shave stropping and later pre-shave stropping 2 days later the blade was still in good condition. I speculate that I took of the over-sharpened edge and rehoned to a still sharp but possibly deeper beveled edge. Don't know. Just know that I'm currently at 2 for 2 - further use will tell.

No mysteries here. The linen is mildly abrasive and if your razor is just starting to deteriorate doing a bunch of passes 60+ will bring it back.

As far as leather stropping goes do a search here under "the grand experiment". It will tell you of a stropping experiment I did a few years ago.

Originally Posted by Disburden

Another confusing part of this question is that stropping is something that you learn over time, by doing it over and over again. So experiementing with lap counts early, may not even be a valid experiment, as stropping technique becomes better over time and with muscle memory.

Excellent point Nick. For the first 6 months of my straight-shaving life, I was lousy at stropping. I foolishly didn't think it was important, focusing on honing instead, wondering why my fine-honed edges wouldn't last...

Since my Great Stropping Revelation, I do a lot of laps, as fast as I can do them cleanly, 100 or more. It isn't a waste of time to me because I find it relaxing. I might get by with a fraction of this, but I'm getting great results. If I've honed 'em right, my shaving edges improve off the hone with this aggressive stropping, and my honing ability at this point is not slack. If done correctly, I don't think a well-honed razor can be over-stropped. If it isn't done correctly, lap count doesn't matter.

I was thinking of starting a new thread. I still might. This will be long, sorry about that. You can scroll down to the bottom for the highlight text to get to the bottom line. But I've always been a little unclear about my stropping. I've always sensed that I do it very differently than others do.

I remember when I first started on the forum I was told (read) how to strop and it always including using NO pressure. I also found guys talking about 60-100 passes. This seemed to make sense. Light, no pressure. It wasn't how I did it though. But, together, I atleast understood it.

Having started straight shaving briefly in the 80's I was taught to strop on tire rubber by the guys I "worked" with. These were members of the Honduran military. We used dull razors for the most part so stropping "effectively" was the word of the day. We had to make up for our deficiences in honing. Stropping on tire rubber is very similar to paddle stropping. Turns out that paddle stropping, and tire rubber stropping, is WAAAAYY different than hanging strop stropping. As an aside I learned early on in my military career to always follow the lifestyle of the guys your with and adapt to them.

Although I learned to apply my learning to the hanging strop I've always been at a loss to explain why my stropping was different. Having no ability to understand what others were actually doing I was always at a loss.

When I went to the NC meet-up I saw first hand that a lot of people were stropping like I do. Some were, and some were not. For the first time I think I could sense what was going on in peoples heads.

The big initial difference is that some people seem to focus more on each stroke being of value, individually. They remain smooth and keep even rythmic strokes, but you can see a mental value being placed on each individual stroke.

I watched others who used lots of passes, were very fast, and seemed to think of the set of strokes as having an overall value.

Since I was applying pressure to my strokes, using very few strokes, and getting the sense that each stroke was of value I was left with a big dilemma. How to discuss my stropping without everyone rolling an edge in order to duplicate it. It caused lots of inconsistent comments about stropping pressure, number of strokes, etc. Sometimes I felt really out of place. Still do I suppose.

I've since discovered that the big difference is in thumb position. Thumb position seems to be very different. If your using pressure, the aggregate of the pressure must be weighted toward the spine. The thumb probably needs to be on the outside of the shank, not the corner. This allows me to create a massive stropping effect on each individual stroke. This is why I believe that I use very few strokes. Now I also believe that the number of strokes is somewhat irrelevant, but I also can see why in the back of my head I've always been puzzled by guys that think that "it doesn't matter how many strokes you do". I think that is because if they saw the stroke I was doing they would be like "Wooooooeeeee, what the heck are you doing there?"

This technique forces a massive amount of "action" on the edge in stropping and I think is the key to me getting a great edge with only a few strokes. I think most of us can imagine that if you could apply pressure when stropping, and figure out the physics of not rolling an edge, that your stropping could include far fewer strokes. Its not better, but way different.

Hope that makes some sense . . .

I also read through the Wiki on stropping and it appears that some of these ideas are touched on, perhaps, even fully understood. But, I thought I would post anyway. I gave up a long time ago with discussing pressure while stropping, then went to the Wiki and a discussion about not only pressure, but speed too. Way to go! Now why didn't anyone ever listen to me?

That is one of the tidbits i gleaned from the King strop thread.

It sure seemed to help me a great deal. I am speaking of pressure on the spine.

I also found some pictures that I think Jimmy (JimmyHad) posted that appear to me to show a move in thumb position similar to what I did a few years ago.

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