Thread: The Grand Experiment

The next logical step would be to swap stropping patterns between the two SRP razors to rule out any inferiority in either.

I think that if we want to look for reasons why SRP 39 being stropped 30x before shaving deteriorated while the other two are doing just great there is no end to the possibilities.

Remember that this was started as a practical experiment, not according to the scientific method. We could surmise that I didn't count every stroke put to my face to ensure that every stroke was similar and used the same pattern on my face, you could say maybe I didn't use the same angle consistantly with all razors with all strokes, maybe the temperature and humidity in the room were different, maybe from day to day I shaved 30 minutes or an hour earlier or later on some days,maybe my water softener was more efficient on some days, maybe I used a tad more pressure on some days while shaving,maybe my hot water was hoter on some days,maybe 39 was defective to begin with and can't hold an edge long,maybe there were evil spirits.Maybe, maybe maybe...

We could really analyze this forever and come up with diverse reasons. Its true SRP 38 was a tad below the others at the start but the fact that it quickly improved to equal the others has got to tell you that in that case at least the before and after stropping improved the shaving quality.

I think that instead of looking for reasons why 39 deteriorated (and remember the deterioration was very minor, it still shaves great just not up to the degree of the others) stop looking at the trees in the forest and look at the forest itself, anotherwords stropping the additional amount is a superior system.

When I started this thing it was all very simple, one razor is stropped before and after and the other only before to see which way was superior. The third razor was added as a control to see if the total number of passes would be distinguished from the before and after factor and that part of the experiment continues.

I would recommend that someone else duplicate my experiment with different razors and take into consideration all the variables I've mentioned and others have mentioned. Now that would be an experiment.

In the meantime stay tuned for further developments.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I think that if we want to look for reasons why SRP 39 being stropped 30x before shaving deteriorated while the other two are doing just great there is no end to the possibilities.

After all the possibilities you gaveI would diregard 39.

My guess is that the extra stropping is preserving the keeness of the edge. It's lucky you decided to put in that third razor or you could have reached a very erroneous conclusion.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

After all the possibilities you gaveI would diregard 39.

My guess is that the extra stropping is preserving the keeness of the edge. It's lucky you decided to put in that third razor or you could have reached a very erroneous conclusion.

Hear, hear! Please realize much of the teasing is scarcasm. This is (IMHO) a very valuable line of inquiry. Assuming it is able to be replicated, you've reached a conclusion that has the potential to change the way we shave. Thus, you've advanced the state of our knowledge--welcome to the world of academia. The main difference between what you've done and what most academicians do is that your research is applied (i.e. it can be put to use immediately).

Please accept my thanks . I look forward to hearing about the conclusion.
Ed

Originally Posted by ForestryProf

Hear, hear! Please realize much of the teasing is scarcasm. This is (IMHO) a very valuable line of inquiry. Assuming it is able to be replicated, you've reached a conclusion that has the potential to change the way we shave. Thus, you've advanced the state of our knowledge--welcome to the world of academia. The main difference between what you've done and what most academicians do is that your research is applied (i.e. it can be put to use immediately).

Please accept my thanks . I look forward to hearing about the conclusion.
Ed

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to demean the effort. You deserve a lot of credit, and I'm sure we all appreciate it.

All I meant to say is that the experiment raised a big question: does the additional stropping make that difference? If so, how much more do you need to do before the benefit is no longer worth the additional effort? These questions need to be answered in the future, probably by experimentation on a lot of twin razors. One interesting experiment would be to see oif you can repeat the experiment then redo both razors and revers their stropping treatment. If you got the same result then, it would be pretty persuasive.

So far it appears that when the total number of swipes is the same, their distribution in time doesn't make that much of a difference.

I was serious when I said it was lucky the third razor was included. Originally, that was a major issue. If the third razor wasn't there now, the experiment would be over with an inconclusive result. Congratulations on making the right decision.

This evening I decided to do a microscopic examination of all three blades and the result was startling to say the least. I last checked all three blades under the scope at the beginning of the experiment and they all looked very similar quite polished with mostly vertical striations and a few diagonal striations and very smooth edges. Now when I checked, wow. SRP 39 looked like I was examining a picture of the leading edge of a forest. Though the edge was very clean and straight it was nothing but a mass of striations. At first I thought it was a wire edge but its not. The actual edge is intact but the whole bevel is a mess. SRP 38 looked about the way it did when I started maybe a few more striations but still pretty well polished and smooth. Whats more amazing is the third TI, it had the least number of striations and its edge was the most polished, more so than when I started but the edge was a mess full of little microscopic nicks. And no it wasn't dropped or hit against anything.Under normal circumstances I would say that blade needs to visit a hone pronto yet it shaves close and comfortably the way 38 shaves it doesn't seem like it should so whats going on here?

I used a Nikon Stereo microscope which has incredible resolution. With a magnification of only 20 I can see more than with a hand lens of 35x. If I use 50x on the Nikon the magnification is really too much. I can see every little irregularity on the blade, no blade actually looks good. If I put my TI damascus under 50x you can see the edge is full of micro cracks and what look like stress fractures in the metal. Amazing. I wish I had the means to photograph it and post the pics but I don't.

As an amateur astronomer we say its not the magnification thats important but the resolving power and its the same with microscopes too apparently.

Perhaps what we are seeing here is that the striations aid in cutting, but only slightly. If the TI #3 shaves as well as SRP #38, then the fineness of the edge is what counts most. The bunching of the edge on SRP #39 would confound the fineness of the edge and make it harder to cut. . . . Discuss.

The microscopic result is what I expected, somehow, as it shows that stropping after the shave is good for the edge.

I know of the discussion that stropping immediately after the shave could break the teeth, but what is eventually more important is the fact that stropping after shaving removes water and soap very effectively. An edge dried and cleaned this way is not very likely to become rusty.

I assume that the TI and the 39 being stropped only before shaving have both declined due to rusting of the edge.

I could not believe this at first when a German honing expert told me so, but from my own experience and from your really great experiment I am being told the same.

Best regards
Martin

Thebigspender, I haven't been able to copy your last message, but that's what I'm responding to.

I don't understand what you're describing. Let's only consider the edge and the bevel.

After initial prep each razor should have had diagonal scratch lines (is this what you meant by striations?) on its bevel. Those lines get thinner with increasin abrasive fineness. If you got down to .5 micron paste honing, the lines were thin enough to be worn down by a lot of stropping.

Since 39 had the least stropping I would expect it to have the most remnant of the scratch lines. If the edge was sraight and even, the scratch lines are not a problem.

38 could not have had more scratch lines than you started with. Where would they come from. It's easy not to see the scratch lines if the lighting isn't just right, especially with only 50x magnification. So, my guess is you mised the scratch lines at first but saw them now.

I have no idea what happened to the last razor. With chips that you can see at 50x the performance of the razor should be affected and you should feel a difference. One way you could get the chips is if you had a wire edge that broke off. Another possibility is that the edge originally was not totally clean but had a little oxidation, which came off with use.

The resolution can't help you if you don't have enough magnification to see all the features of the edge. I had a whole group of Ebay razors that I put into shaving condition and only checked at 60x. Coincidentally I checked one at 100x and found irregularities in the edge. In fact every one of those razors had them. They all improved significantly when I got the edges to look straight at 100x. Some of them had oxidized edges and I couldn't hone them past 8K because the edges crumbled when made that fine and pruduced the irregularities. I had to go to a coarser hone and grt down to clean metal. Then, the edge sharpened fine with the finer grit hones.

Hmmm, the oxidation part on razor three makes sense. It is actually the oldest razor in my collection and with a rotation of 30 razors has only been honed a couple times in two and a half years so its possible with all the intensive use and stropping now that it affected the edge but even with all the little chips the performance is still outstanding. I know it doesn't seem possible but it is. I used it this morning with trepidation thinking about all those little chips on my face (I hope this isn't a new psycological factor now-just a joke)

As far as magnification and resolution goes I have to differ with you joe. I don't know if you've ever looked at a razor with a truly outstanding scope as opposed to a radio shack type but the resolution will always win over mag. I had brought up the astronomy thing because you could look at the sky with a 400x scope and look at the same star field with 75x in a quality scope and see more and more detail with less mag.

As far as the SRP razors go the striations or scratches are the honing or stropping remnants I would guess. SRP 39 which was the loser in this thing did have the most scratches along the bevel and edge and most were very vertical, few were diagonal. SRP 38 had fewer and they were finer and more diagonal. At the start of this thing I made real sure they all looked very close though I don't know that that is the most important thing as opposed to the shave quality as a comparison. Its just an interesting observation.

As this thing continues now that I have a visual reference I will be checking both razors under the scope at the end of every week so I'll see what changes happen.