Thread: Stropping is King

Originally Posted by Kees

After digesting the gist of this thread I have been experimenting with my stropping. The result is that my razors stay keen much longer. They pass the HHT time after time, however halfway shaving my face I start to feel more irritation than I had with the same razors fresh from the hone.

So IMHO the edge does start to deteriorate after a while. Has anyone had a similar experience?

Yes, I need to do a quick refresh (3 swipes on the Swaty every few weeks). To keep the same keeneness when I strop. I think it has to do with how sharp I make the edge. I have always had skin issues, and I found that the sharpest possible edge is the best solution. Unfortunately, it makes for a weak edge, which is not durable. With my skin sensitivity I can feel reductions in sharpness that may not affect others.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Yes, I need to do a quick refresh (3 swipes on the Swaty every few weeks). To keep the same keeneness when I strop. I think it has to do with how sharp I make the edge. I have always had skin issues, and I found that the sharpest possible edge is the best solution. Unfortunately, it makes for a weak edge, which is not durable. With my skin sensitivity I can feel reductions in sharpness that may not affect others.

I'm very new at this straight thing, but my limited experience is that the edges I finish on .25 diamond paste need a touch up more frequently than the ones where I've stopped on the.25.

I'm actually thinking of getting some .5 chrome oxide to see if that provides the combination of sharpness/smoothness/edge durability that works best for me.

While I don't see myself going for 1/2 a year without refreshing, this thread is very interesting and has resulted in improvements in my stropping technique.

Originally Posted by xman

I'm finding that better stropping can help maintain the edge longer as well as moderate this 'decline'. I still kind of prefer that freshly honed sensation.

X

If stropping is restoring the edge to its original keeness, i don't see how you could be doing any better. On the other hand, if it's not, you have two choices: compromise on sharpness and let it go longer; or do something to get back the sharpness. For me, that something is the emoval of the slightest amount of matrial (a refresh), and I'm back where I was.

I don't know what you mean by "moderate this decline." Stropping either does it or it doesn't. If it doesn't and material removal solves the problem, then there are only two possible stropping solutions: increase the number of stropping reps (a LOT) so you remove the neessary material; or add the slightest abrasiveness to the strop so you remove the material. Maybe heavier stropping could help slightly (with other risks), but there's a physical issue here that normal stropping alone can't solve.

Originally Posted by mparker762

I wonder if that's not a contributor to this disagreement on edge life. The razor I shaved with this morning is on its 5th shave, and though the edge is just fine I'm still feeling dissatisfied because it doesn't have that velvety feeling anymore, and I had to fight the urge to put it on the CrO2 paddle.

Hi, my name is Michael, and I'm a Chromium Oxide junkie...

I think you're seeing the same thing as me, but in my case the skin issue maginifies the difference. At times, I can have a flare up, and my skin becomes so sensitive that I can't str8 shave for more than two days in a row. When I have my worst flareups I need to stop everything and I go back to a simple Gillette DE and Noxema until things settle down. I don't even use aftershave.

Originally Posted by mparker762

Scott claims his strop isn't getting gray from accumulated swarf, though it's possible he's cleaning it frequently enough not to notice. My old Bismark's linen side definitely got gray, though I cleaned it along with the leather side every few months with saddle soap so it never got too bad. My handamerican strop doesn't have a linen side, but the leather is still darkening with use, though whether from swarf or residual oil from the blade I can't say.

I would expect the linnen to get dirty. After all part of the reason for using it is to clean the edge to protect the leather. If you're wondering what's on the strop, one thing you can do is use a microscope. You may be able to see metal particles or grit.

Since we're speaking of the linen side, I'm skeptical that the linen side really heats up the edge. At least on my old bismark, the linen side had less draw than the leather side, and less draw means there's less friction, and the heat from friction is the only thing that could heat up the edge.

I'm not. There's usually some reason to the madness that barbers have been practicing for ages. And their claims usually carry some validity. It's hard to compare abrasiveness, because the linnen side is so rough that it's bouncing the razor around, and it's hard to tell what kind of friction you have. On the other hand, the bouncing could have a warming effect. We know how hot metal can get from repeated bending.

Originally Posted by suzuki

I'm very new at this straight thing, but my limited experience is that the edges I finish on .25 diamond paste need a touch up more frequently

That's what I mean. It's common sharpening knowledge that there's a tradeoff between sharpness and durability. I would expect a continuum of durability from a barely acceptable edge to a wire edge, and the closer you move to the wire edge the more frequently you'll need to refresh. Like many other things in shaving personal preference is the bottom line.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I don't know what you mean by "moderate this decline." Stropping either does it or it doesn't.

Or it kind of does it, or mostly does it or even hardly does it. There are many shades of grey between the keenest and and one that doesn't quite shave any more. Proper and plentiful stropping draws out the decline.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

If it doesn't and material removal solves the problem, then there are only two possible stropping solutions: increase the number of stropping reps (a LOT) so you remove the neessary material; ...

I'm skeptical as to whether an upasted finishing strop can remove metal the way you are suggesting at all.

X

Originally Posted by xman

I'm skeptical as to whether an upasted finishing strop can remove metal the way you are suggesting at all.

X

It has to be able to, because even water can wear down a rock. It's only a question of how many reps. I think it was Robert Williams who posted saying that he is able to sharpen with a leather strop with hundreds of reps.

Originally Posted by mparker762

Since we're speaking of the linen side, I'm skeptical that the linen side really heats up the edge. At least on my old bismark, the linen side had less draw than the leather side, and less draw means there's less friction, and the heat from friction is the only thing that could heat up the edge.

I also think the linen might be a little more abrasive than is usually suspected.

I have heard "draw" is kind of a suction effect that increases as the edge gets smoother, not just the result of simple friction.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

I also think the linen might be a little more abrasive than is usually suspected.

I think so too, however this doesn't change basic physics. The only energy that is available to heat up the edge is the energy from your arm that goes to overcoming the drag, and blades just don't drag as much on linen as they do on leather.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

I have heard "draw" is kind of a suction effect that increases as the edge gets smoother, not just the result of simple friction.

There may well be a suction effect, though its affect on the "draw" would be due more to the increased friction between the blade and strop because of the suction.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

I also think the linen might be a little more abrasive than is usually suspected.

I have heard "draw" is kind of a suction effect that increases as the edge gets smoother, not just the result of simple friction.

When the edge gets smoother, its contact surface with the strop increases, and as a result the drag increases as well.