Thread: When does honing end and paste stropping begin?

Hi All,

So I am researching and I have a questions regarding the Thiers Issard Bio-diamond paste system (6, 3, 1, .25) and how it fits in with hones.

If someone had say Shapton GS 1K, 4K, 8K, 16K and then started in on the pastes how much overlap could there be? Does the 6 micron paste replace some of those hones?
How would that work with other hones like Norton or Naniwa?

I am just borrowing a friends straight right now, so before I invest I want to be sure I get the right sort of setup.

Thanks and cheers!

Welcome to SRP

The question I think you need answered is "How am I going to maintain my razor?". My answer assuming you aren't planing on honing ebay specials: Start with .5 micron Crox on a strop and, a fine synthetic stone like GS 16k. For further research read What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need?

For your actual questions

Of the pastes the one that would likely improve the edge off 16k is the .25. BTW diamond pastes are generally considered to give a harsh edge. Using diamond on hard felt seems to smooth it out.

Yes you can use low grit pastes to replace hones, but it increases the difficulty of obtaining or maintaining a flat bevel.

Enjoy the learning curves.

Jonathan

Diamond pasted strops are used edge trailing as opposed to edge leading. The 3 um is about 8k equivalent and the 1 um is about 14k equivalent. If you get a shapton setup as you describe, you could use maybe a .5 micron crox on paddle or linen(I like linen). The others arent necesary IMO. I have used pasted leather, linen, felt and balsa for crox or diamond slurry and never larger than 1 um. I like hones and use dmts for bevels, norton 4/8k naniwa 12k and crox on linen. Theres a million ways to skin a cat though.

I don't think you'd want to overlap pastes and hones. Usually, after a 12k or so, one would go to chrome ox (I think .5) or .5 or .25 diamond, or whatever is preferred. And that is the key word. In that range, it's entirely down to personal preference.

If you don't have hones, you can do a paste progression instead. Not something I've ever done or seen in person, but I have read about it.

Just to echo what holli4 said, if you already have a hone set (whether it be Norton, Shapton, Naniwa) pastes should only be used to refine a shave ready edge (8k+). You can also use them for the occasional touch up as well.

The paste-only approach seems to be more popular in Europe, especially Germany IIRC. There aren't many members here at all that follow that procedure, most are rock hounds

As you gain more experiance,i think you will realize pastes,sprays, potions, cannot hold a candle to using and mastering the proper stones.
been there,done that,got rid of them all.When i learned how to hone,but I still use the TT word TAPE Is MY FRIEND.

Welcome! An idea, Raymond. Go to member introductions. Introduce and give your locale. You will get some advise!

If you had a 16k stone you wouldnt need pastes. IMO

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

If you had a 16k stone you wouldnt need pastes. IMO

best advice yet.

I think it depends on what you want to do with getting the optimum sharpness/smoothness out of the razor that suits your preference. I personally know world class honers who find no problem with honing through say 12 or 16k and then gilding the lily with paste. I know one who used to use the norton set, 1k, 4k, 8k and then final finish on diamond paste on balsa. His razors were as sharp as any I've ever seen.

My approach has been to really want to learn to get the most out of the hones without the addition of pastes. I've got them. Chrom-ox, diamond paste and spray on hanging felt, paddle and balsa. I've experimented with them and , following the stones they are good. I was on a mission though and wanted to really learn to hone so I pretty much avoided the paste/spray and kept working the hones.

I was getting fairly good results my first year or two but was more or less following by rote without "knowing" what I was doing. After 5 to 6 years of messing with it I feel like now I know what I'm doing with the hones and the bonus for me is I'm happy with the results I get with the hones alone.

For the end user who isn't looking at honing with stones as the 'holy grail,'but just wants a sharp/smooth shaving edge, I would say a chosera 1k for bevel setting, the norton 4/8 for sharpening and finishing and whatever pastes/sprays and see if that gives you the satisfactory edge. Throw in a D8C DMT 325 diamond plate for lapping the stones.

So IMO it depends on what the goal is. I would definitely learn to hone with stones though. Kind of like jazz musician Charlie "Yardbird" Parker said, "Master your instrument, then forget all that stuff and play."