Thread: X-stroke or not?

Lately I've seen lots of posts encouraging the purchase of 3" strops so the user won't need to learn the X-stroke. Strange advice; if this community was about short cuts then we'd never have taken up straights.

Go ahead and buy the widest strop you can find--our merchants will benefit from sales of a premium item--and make sure all your hones are 3" wide as well--the economy will grow--but you'll still be cheating yourself by not learning this simple extra degree of motion in your stropping and honing strokes. The OP is correct that an X-stroke on the strop gives a better mix and match between any of the strop's and blade's individual irregularities, but incorrect (in my opinion) that such mixing is too subtle to matter. I think of a lawn where I lived and mowed for about five years. I always mowed the same pattern, never varied, and eventually wore ruts for the mower wheels. Besides being an appalling metaphor for my life at the time, it was a lasting example of how materials can acquire a memory of how they've been used.

Imagine a small burr in the center of your blade. If you never vary your strop stroke, you'll eventually erode the strop surface where the burr is. With an X-stroke, you'll distribute that wear more evenly over the leather. In either case, of course, you should go to the hones and repair the burr. At the scale of razor edges, this is an extreme example. They are microscopic creations, and their work is done at the microscopic scale. For that reason, I believe that we should take every proper care to even out microscopic sources of wear and tear, and for me that means X-strokes on every strop, no matter its width.

The necessity of X-strokes (and rolling X-strokes, which the OP approaches describing) for smiling edges manifests at a more macro level. Even if you're starting with a new, nonsmiling blade, you may want to cultivate a rolling X-stroke on the hones, since it's so much better to err towards honing in a smile than towards honing in a frown.

In short, in my opinion, there is no good reason at all to avoid learning an X-stroke.

This response isn't just to this thread, but to all the posts I've been seeing that treat X-strokes as some exotic challenge that should be corrected not by better technique but by wider hardware.

/

Vector Victor.....I use 3 inch strops and hones and use an x stroke. Can't see the downside really.

Confucius say:Shortcut very good on road trip, you reach destination faster.
Shortcut on road to shaving knowledge take you on road to regret.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Confucius say:Shortcut very good on road trip, you reach destination faster.
Shortcut on road to shaving knowledge take you on road to regret.

With deepest respect-
I never argued for or against, or advocated not using the x-stroke (if I did, that was not my intension). I was merely interested in the how and why the x-stroke gives better results. When members of your's, Glen's, and other's caliber state that something works - I believe them. However I am, and always have been, unsatisfied with only learning the what - I am curious to know how something does what it does and why it works the way it works - this has always given me a deeper understanding and appreciation for any topic of discussion or conversation. I just like to know (to the best of my ability) how the world works.

Originally Posted by Joegags

With deepest respect-
I never argued for or against, or advocated not using the x-stroke (if I did, that was not my intension). I was merely interested in the how and why the x-stroke gives better results. When members of your's, Glen's, and other's caliber state that something works - I believe them. However I am, and always have been, unsatisfied with only learning the what - I am curious to know how something does what it does and why it works the way it works - this has always given me a deeper understanding and appreciation for any topic of discussion or conversation. I just like to know (to the best of my ability) how the world works.

May be you missed my post, but I gave you the answer.
The contact the blade makes with the strop is full when doing x-stroke. When stropping, naturally, the hand does x-stroke.

Originally Posted by mainaman

May be you missed my post, but I gave you the answer.
The contact the blade makes with the strop is full when doing x-stroke. When stropping, naturally, the hand does x-stroke.

This thread and especially this post, made me go and strop my razor on my AWESOME Tony Miller Heirloom and really pay attention to what was going on when I "got into a groove" and I have to say that it's an X stroke. It naturally happens! Just not as pronounced as what I've seen the youtube tutorials do. I destroyed two strops trying to over-exaggerate the move when I was learning.

My advice for beginners (which I still absolutely am as well) is to concentrate on not gouging the thing then once the "flip" is "muscle memorized," go ahead and slowly modify until you're x-ing. It can't hurt and scientific proof or not, guys who've been doing it for a long time seem to ALL say that the X-stroke is better.

But then that's what working for me... you might do better learning the x from the get go...

Originally Posted by mannye

This thread and especially this post, made me go and strop my razor on my AWESOME Tony Miller Heirloom and really pay attention to what was going on when I "got into a groove" and I have to say that it's an X stroke. It naturally happens! Just not as pronounced as what I've seen the youtube tutorials do.

Exactly now if only some people listen ...

Originally Posted by mainaman

May be you missed my post, but I gave you the answer.
The contact the blade makes with the strop is full when doing x-stroke. When stropping, naturally, the hand does x-stroke.

I did see your post and thank you - it is helpful.
When thinking through the process and trying to fit the responses together, I could not get myself out of a narrow definition of "the blade makes contact with the strop." In my minds eye, a 2.75" blade on a 3" strop was already making full contact without doing anything, and I could not see how your simple statement answered my question - again I just couldn't "see" it - now, with all of the replies and thinking more on the small scale (edge, not blade) I think I do - so again, thanks.

As an aside, however, I also don't want to be misunderstood - I do not want to be seen as someone who takes shortcuts because that is not who I am - If that is what has come across in my posts that was not my intension. Like I said, I just like to know how things work.

Thanks again for your help.

Originally Posted by Joegags

I did see your post and thank you - it is helpful.
When thinking through the process and trying to fit the responses together, I could not get myself out of a narrow definition of "the blade makes contact with the strop." In my minds eye, a 2.75" blade on a 3" strop was already making full contact without doing anything, and I could not see how your simple statement answered my question - again I just couldn't "see" it - now, with all of the replies and thinking more on the small scale (edge, not blade) I think I do - so again, thanks.

As an aside, however, I also don't want to be misunderstood - I do not want to be seen as someone who takes shortcuts because that is not who I am - If that is what has come across in my posts that was not my intension. Like I said, I just like to know how things work.

Thanks again for your help.

The contact is never perfect. With time the strop may cup a little, not all razors are perfect straight, so the contact is never perfect. Straight stroke will work ideally with perfect everything, but the x-stroke makes all parts fit when the individual condition is less than perfect. I can see your confusion, the stropping is direct action on the edge it gently burnishes the steel and smoothness it very nicely.
The rest of the razor does not benefit from stropping.

Interesting thread. I would like to throw in my .02 cents if no one minds. I plan on doing it anyway, so . . .

One of the biggest limitations in our media is that we always seem to think and discuss in 2 dimensions. My primary concern, and there are a few reasons (but the primary one), requires a little 3D thinking. But, it's pretty simple.

A razor is not a flat object; it possesses two almost opposing thicknesses. A thick rigid spine leading to a thin fragile edge.

The rigid spine can take all manner of direct perpendicularly applied pressure. It will not break, bend, or yield.

The edge is entirely the opposite. It can accept no perpendicular pressure at all. Zero. Nada. I think of it this way whenever I hone or strop. It sounds a little zen like,but, "only the edge can support the edge against pressure". There is no other steel anywhere else. So only the middle of the edge can protect either the tip or the toe against pressure. Otherwise it bends.

Both honing and stropping apply pressure directly perpendicular to the edge. Thus, unknowingly, many are constantly destroying their own edges. It takes time, but it happens. In order to keep an edge running for the long run you need to "shave" at the metal without any bending ever. Sideways?

So, finally, we come to the problem from a more simple perspective. If we accept that we can/should never bend the edge. And, I suppose, we have to accept that an edge is fragile.

How can anyone hone or strop an edge without using some kind of a high angle or x pattern?

Not sure if that point really helps or not, but I thought I'd throw in my morning musings . . .

If you follow the logic you might start using a high angle AND an x pattern. Then, simply document the time between re-honing.

iPad so my grammar/punct isn't too good.