Thread: Stroping after shave bad?

It is true (not just marketing) that metal moves. All materials have deflection and movement. Metal is no different, and the very edge a very sharp razor can snap with a brisk stropping- Timing is everything (to the observer) the part were it gets interesting is I observed this the other night after a late night shave following a day of microscope use and went and stropped on autopilot and regretted it, as usually I let my blades rest and strop later- so I put it under the scope and looked at the edge again. It was different for sure. -the amount we're talking about with proper stropping technique is so small, that from what I saw on a Dorko steel full hollow (steel type and carbide size as well as blade geometry are variables as well- this should not be overlooked) at only 500x with a professional quality Light microscope(usb scopes are not 500 or 1000x- Under 100x at best. I know, I have a "1000x" one too)- Stropping(well broken in linen- brisk and then shell right after a shave)

its effect was similar to jointing (the edge had not yet been jointed)- and it left the most perfectly straight edge- slightly truncated, a small flat at the bevel edge. still HHT 4/5 and more importantly still smooth for a dry atg. It was only better than a shave ready non jointed edge. So, yes. It can snap off the very edge- or high points at the edge- more than what removal of a false edge with stopping would take- but if the bevel is set right, it's just the excess of infinity that the edge didn't require- everything required of an edge to shave perfectly is safe from stropping with proper technique after shaving- it's the last .2% of stupid sharp that is forfeited for better refinement. Therefore- I think that with proper shaving and stropping technique the only bits bent so far to be susceptible to immediate stropping are the least supported ones-the ones that shouldn't be there anyways- the thinning of the herd only makes it better. Of course, that's with jnats, scoring and snapping a material only works if the material adjacent to score line is sound. With jagged stria of a synthetic- I could imagine someone jumping over a picket fence and getting their coat caught on the way over- it's not going to break evenly at the top stringer every time- more commonly, unevenly. So I might be interested to see the effects of stropping after shave with synthetic edges- will if refine them further or leave them jagged or dull.

From what I found though- I will be experimenting further with shaving and more enticing: spine up- mm long light strops with shaving pressure against the shell right while at the hones- finishing without jointing- then normal linen and shell stropping as a substitute procedure for jointing on a stone- it had the same end result effect, but better and didn't require additional honing to bring the edge back. It's still n of 1 at this point- but initial discovery was a pleasant surprise. I think jointing on a strop and then a couple finishing laps may just be a break through alternative jointing technique (and may push the envelope further- the less you remove from a squared edge- the less random collateral excavations happen, so the more refined it is (this is the mathematical principal upon which jointing at finishing works better compared to jointing before bevel set- the less alterations you have to make, the less entropy will you introduce) - as unlike the hone, the strop doesn't take a properly honed edge too far back as it is much more selective in what material it removes from the edge ...

Originally Posted by jnats

It is true (not just marketing) that metal moves. All materials have deflection and movement. Metal is no different, and the very edge a very sharp razor can snap with a brisk stropping- Timing is everything (to the observer) the part were it gets interesting is I observed this the other night after a late night shave following a day of microscope use and went and stropped on autopilot and regretted it, as usually I let my blades rest and strop later- so I put it under the scope and looked at the edge again. It was different for sure. -the amount we're talking about with proper stropping technique is so small, that from what I saw on a Dorko steel full hollow (steel type and carbide size as well as blade geometry are variables as well- this should not be overlooked) at only 500x with a professional quality Light microscope(usb scopes are not 500 or 1000x- Under 100x at best. I know, I have a "1000x" one too)- Stropping(well broken in linen- brisk and then shell right after a shave)

its effect was similar to jointing (the edge had not yet been jointed)- and it left the most perfectly straight edge- slightly truncated, a small flat at the bevel edge. still HHT 4/5 and more importantly still smooth for a dry atg. It was only better than a shave ready non jointed edge. So, yes. It can snap off the very edge- or high points at the edge- more than what removal of a false edge with stopping would take- but if the bevel is set right, it's just the excess of infinity that the edge didn't require- everything required of an edge to shave perfectly is safe from stropping with proper technique after shaving- it's the last .2% of stupid sharp that is forfeited for better refinement. Therefore- I think that with proper shaving and stropping technique the only bits bent so far to be susceptible to immediate stropping are the least supported ones-the ones that shouldn't be there anyways- the thinning of the herd only makes it better. Of course, that's with jnats, scoring and snapping a material only works if the material adjacent to score line is sound. With jagged stria of a synthetic- I could imagine someone jumping over a picket fence and getting their coat caught on the way over- it's not going to break evenly at the top stringer every time- more commonly, unevenly. So I might be interested to see the effects of stropping after shave with synthetic edges- will if refine them further or leave them jagged or dull.

From what I found though- I will be experimenting further with shaving and more enticing: spine up- mm long light strops with shaving pressure against the shell right while at the hones- finishing without jointing- then normal linen and shell stropping as a substitute procedure for jointing on a stone- it had the same end result effect, but better and didn't require additional honing to bring the edge back. It's still n of 1 at this point- but initial discovery was a pleasant surprise. I think jointing on a strop and then a couple finishing laps may just be a break through alternative jointing technique (and may push the envelope further- the less you remove from a squared edge- the less random collateral excavations happen, so the more refined it is (this is the mathematical principal upon which jointing at finishing works better compared to jointing before bevel set- the less alterations you have to make, the less entropy will you introduce) - as unlike the hone, the strop doesn't take a properly honed edge too far back as it is much more selective in what material it removes from the edge ...

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jnats, I have no idea what you said. It perhaps may be my ignorance or the fact that I judge my edges by my face alone, unless honing, when I use an allegedly 30x loupe.

And if it proves to not be a fluke but a dependable working solution: double trademark/patent/copyright. Dibs. I'm not a lawyer, but I wrote it in a forum so I'm pretty sure it's legally enforceable

Jnats,, if your happy with your method,,, then I'm happy for you.

I strop right after my shave and have never seemed to have a problem. I wouldn't be able to put a razor away without at least going 10 laps on something to prevent corrosion on the edge. I tried doing 10 laps only when I started then stropping the rest before the shave but didn't find any difference for me when I stropped it all up after the shave and did nothing before my next shave. I shave every day with a straight though and usually use the same razor for a couple weeks before I switch to another; I don't know if the every day thing makes a difference stropping then using it 24 hours later.

Originally Posted by Lumberjack55

I feel like I've heard different info on stroping after a shave. I've heard you shouldn't strope until 24 hours after a shave. That ur edge is moving, any truth to this?

I do it before a shave but wanted to touch up a couple hours later and wasn't sure if that would hurt anything.

I always strop after I shave, in part to get any water or residue that might be on the bevel/edge.

Originally Posted by Lumberjack55

I feel like I've heard different info on stroping after a shave. I've heard you shouldn't strope until 24 hours after a shave. That ur edge is moving, any truth to this?

I do it before a shave but wanted to touch up a couple hours later and wasn't sure if that would hurt anything.

I strop 30 linen, 60 leather both before and after the shave. I tried eliminating the post shave stopping and the edge wasn't as good.

What I think is that after we learn we develop.our own unique method of stropping, lathering, shaving, and honing. To me that's why people get optimum results doing different things. It's our unique combination of ďoing things. One person may strop less but add more water to his soap to make the razor glide more over his face, for instance.

Originally Posted by jnats

It is true (not just marketing) that metal moves...........elective in what material it removes from the edge ...

I removed the meaty bit for space saving....

So, I think I understand this. Essentially, you're contemplating shaving as an alternative jointing technique while honing. A theory is to shave a strop very lightly and then finish honing, which should be more efficient than normal jointing since you are removing significantly less material and not having to bring back the edge as much. This sounds like a legitimate and promising theory.

I would try this myself, but I don't have the equipment to document and I would probably muck it up and saw my strop in half. A highly advanced honing technique, for sure.

I think what jnats means is when you strop straight after a shave you are removing the high points like you do when you joint the edge. May be something to that, I notice the edge gets smoother about 3rd or 4th shave off the hones.