Thread: "microabrasive" strop

Originally Posted by Jnatcat

I've been playing around with .5 CrOx and it will be interesting to see how this compares to the CrOx, i have heard several boast about using vintage fire hose for stropping and it's supposed to better than flax linen but i have never used it, I have used poly webbing and don't like it at all.

I have been playing around with a vintage fire-hose strop that I made up around Christmas. The one I have is a bit rough for razors IMO, but I just treated one side with .5 micron diamond spray and the other with CrOx. That combo starting with about 25 strokes on the diamond side followed up by maybe 30 on the CrOx side will really put a wicked final edge on even the hardest knives. If I could figure out a way to make it softer, it might be good for razors. But I'm not too worried as I've got a nice piece of cotton linen That I strop my razors on.

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

I have been playing around with a vintage fire-hose strop that I made up around Christmas. The one I have is a bit rough for razors IMO, but I just treated one side with .5 micron diamond spray and the other with CrOx. That combo starting with about 25 strokes on the diamond side followed up by maybe 30 on the CrOx side will really put a wicked final edge on even the hardest knives. If I could figure out a way to make it softer, it might be good for razors. But I'm not too worried as I've got a nice piece of cotton linen That I strop my razors on.

Work it over a 2X4 ,preferably a hardwood and not pine.treat it like a tanner does a green hide on a fleshing beam.it will soften up .

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by RocTraitor

I just don't understand why this is frowned upon. It's been found that this works very well and I understand that quite a few folks are very happy with his work, inexperienced and experienced, alike. So if it apparently works very well, then why not?

It makes a razor that shaves, but that doesn't shave quite as well as the razor would if the edge is good without tape. (by good, I mean that you will occasionally run into a good razor that is otherwise fine with tape, but will not hold its edge without. I've got an expensive kikuboshi razor like that. It works "fine" (OK is how I would put it) with tape, but it is not as easy through the hairs as other razors of the same steel and grind that don't need the tape.

My opinion is that the only reason to use tape if you don't have to is if you are just absoultely preserving a new looking spine at all costs. Proper honing and care negates the need to do that, but some do it, anyway, and that's OK.

If someone is defaulting to that many layers of tape on all razors, I see it as a shortcut with a compromise. That may make a few people mad, but the simple truth is that a razor is a little harder to sharpen without tape and get it dead nuts every single time. When it's right, it's the best edge, though, because the bevel right behind the edge is thinner and doesn't have to wedge hairs off in a cut as much. Same as a paring chisel has a lower angle than a bench chisel and works better for paring because of it.

re: new materials, I generally hone a razor once every 200 shaves or so. 3 months is not out of the ordinary for any good linen - it's only partially into the honing cycle, but the strop that I use is a vintage silk-finish linen and then a piece of horse butt strip of my own make (make is loosely used, all I did was find a good piece, cut it with a marking knife and break it in and it has outperformed everything else that I've bought in the long term - and I have made a strop out of a no 2 horween shell (I still have it) and bought kanayama's finest - it's the break in period that would be offputting to people for the butt strip).

In terms of strops, little is out there that betters the treated vintage linens. We have seen scads of attempts at various linens, and the ones I've used often are far less good than a vintage silk finish labeled strop (of any make). NOS versions of what I'm mentioning often go for about $25 on ebay, and are a lifetime linen that is proven not to dull a razor. Usually when you hone just to "check in" around 200 hones, the edge takes a step back for a short period of time until it's hit the linen a couple of times again. It would be nothing to get a full year of daily shaves out of a single edge without re-honing.

I haven't seen any listings for what's being discussed, but we have to measure it against things that were proven before the resurgence, and the vintage treated linens are something that I have not seen duplicated or matched.

Originally Posted by RocTraitor

Absolutely.

It is a material that's used in industrial conveyor belts - that's extent of what I know about this. As far as I can tell, it seems to be some type of "fiberglass" weave embedded in a poly core (sandwiched) It's not fiberglass, it's not friable or anything of that nature. It is best described as already mentioned - the magic eraser material (Melamine foam) which is microabrasive - No idea on the grit but it's extremely fine if anything. With use, you can see the white turning grey very slowly this is a clear indicator of removing some metal.

http://i.imgur.com/a/j3sRP

An additional thought - this could be similar to the flax "firehose" material, just a lot more stiffer.

I replied before getting to the end of this thread. I stand by my comments above, of course, but you're who I'd guess you are on etsy, it looks like you're a reasonable guy with happy customers (as opposed to someone selling shiny reflections and romantic talk at high prices).

Quite true! Your comments have been quite insightful, thank you.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Have you tried to compare the stria to a known grit?

And is it consistent from piece to piece, I take it there is no added grit, just what is in the material?

No, I have not compared the stria - I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

I did an experiment when I got the microabrasive - I stropped every time before I shave with the microabrasive and the shave is always excellent and no changes were detected- I've stayed with one razor (A Fili 13 Sub Cero) for two months for testing and the edge remained keen and soft throughout.

I needed a comparison so I used a separate felt strop treated with CrOx and it became harsh and uncomfortable rather quickly. We all know that pastes are an occasional use to touch up the edge.

I feel that the microabrasive is at the "just right" level of abrasiveness to maintain the edge rather than deteriorating the edge through excessive sharpening.

As far as I can tell, the manufacture of the microabrasive is extremely uniform and consistent. I haven't seen any blemishes or errors in what I've handled which is several hundred feet so far.

Originally Posted by malaverdiere

Thanks RocTraitor for sharing the pics! That's the first time I have the chance to see this material. It is much more rigid I'd have expected.

Your find may revolutionize the strop industry. That being said, because you advertise it as a microabrasive, and not "something with lots of draw", the question of particle size is bound to pop up, and I think it will be at your commercial advantage to explain your product better. You know how specific people are about their diamond sprays and all. One guy will swear about 0.5 micron CBN is the best ever, and the other will scream 'too coarse!'

I know that all this 'explaining' sucks

Personally, I'd love lots of microscope pictures, and I wish more strop makers would provide them.

You are welcome. I'm aware people like to have a number (particle size and uniformity in this case) but something like this - it can't be provided unfortunately without a lot of examination and such (Especially because the intended use for this material is not for stropping use). This material def. does not have much draw at all, it is very slick. It has a slight "furry" feel although (It will stick to your shirt if you drag it across). I forgot to mention that I have to sand the surface to bring that up, so it's kind of breaking up the fibers on the surface to serve as the microabrasive, really.

As for the micro pictures, I will see what I can do (dig up my USB microscope and see what comes out of it).

The problem may have been the felt more than the chromium oxide (if that was graded crox). I'd check the bare felt. I've tried two felt strops, and both of them left visible scratches, as compared to a vintage linen which will eventually massage a bevel into a bright polish and that's about it.

Presumably the fiberglass belt/material that you're using has silica in it, and if it's tiny or smooth, that would explain why it will do a little but not much. Silica-based abrasives cut peaks well, but once a surface is uniform, if the razor is reasonably hard, the abrasive won't do too much to it. That's not the case with larger silica abrasives like sand stones, hindostans, etc, especially when there are free particles roving around, but you probably won't have those in fiberglass.

At any rate, hopefully, I'm not coming across too critical. Usually when someone comes along with the new sliced bread, they're selling shiny flashes and romantic language with really high prices, and I see you're not running that kind of operation, so more power to you.

Very true about the felt.

It's entirely possible about the silica - I haven't been able to get more concrete information about the material- proprietary stuff and all, from the mfg. I don't get any scratches on the bevel after the final hone, at least that I can see, so if there's any it's quite small, if anything, it is possibly further polishing the edge (without causing it to be harsh) which can't be a bad thing.

You aren't coming across critical at all, it's good to have thoughts/insight about things like this - I've just had success with the material and decided that I could pass it along to others, everything has come back to me positive so it's been working out well for others. If it wasn't decent I wouldn't have anything to do with it.