Thread: micro what

I have never seen or experienced micro-corrosion. I have only seen proof of it in 1930's Popular Mechanics article.

At the OK get together I tried out an Escher with my 132 imp. Boy was I looking forward to using it. After wet sharpening it I wiped the blade and put it away. Things happen, and it wasn't until a week after that I remembered: Oh yeah.

I wanted to feel the Esch so I never stropped it. (Lee had a nice stone in that one.) Since I have used the razor 3 or 4 times; without stropping or oiling. only wiped and put away. I think it's about ready for a dozen or so laps now

Further still imagine a sharp blade put away for 70 years or so. That steel is considered just fine and a single resetting of the edge is supposed to make it fit for use.

That same imp which was in pretty good condition when I got it required multiple bevel resets before it would hold an edge. It'd shave 2 or 3 times and become quite uncomfortable. In fact all my vintage blades have been that way.

Micro corrosion affecting edge performance on a daily basis; ha. show me the pics

Kevin I can't show any evidence based on razors. What I can say is that back in the old days we pro tattoo artists would use carbon steel tattooing needles. Following cleaning and inspection if they weren't hooked we would re-use them. With carbon steel if the needles weren't rinsed with green soap or put in the ultra-sonic immediately after use the blood residue would quickly eat (literally) into the steel.

Just assuming that in shaving we peel a bit of skin at a micro level and maybe a weeper or two I would expect that any left in the striations couldn't do them any good. Whether stropping following the shave to help protect the edge is a waste of time or not at least it makes me feel better. The old better safe than sorry philosophy.

In regard to stropping in general, I have never tried shaving without stropping first. Having read every authority on the subject recommend an initial stropping either after honing or just between shaves I figure they must know what they are talking about. I am not averse to experimenting as the cold water shaving proves but I just don't see a point in omitting a step that all pro barber manuals and other experts recommend for a smoother shaving edge.

My interest in fresh honed unstropped edges is just to see what the hone and I have done, and to what extent the razor has cooperated in our work. Then it becomes rather plain whether or not my strap laps are effective. As I tried to learn how to maintain a razor hone and strop as taught I did not know which of my partners had mislead me. Was I short on edge creation or did I ruin it on the strap?

It does seem the most effective way to clean th eedge without dulling is to strop a few times before putting it away, and I usually do. But is the strap able to get into the striations even though they are extremely, extremely shallow, or does it simply skip over the tops?

The article, please correct me if I am wrong, is about DE blades, which if used by everyone else as I did are left gunked- you don't clean them; you throw them away. Quite a bit different than wiping a blade clean and dry after use. Sometimes i oil sometimes not, if I bleed I hope I clean it well

Rust will happen, cannot argue against that. It will start small, obviously true. My question comes from the guess work on what the strop does to the edge, seemed like a lot was pinned on instant rust- that does not seem to affect the edge when you go without stropping for at least a few shaves.... not sure how clear any of that will red but it is time to go home

That article was on DE blades. I understand your testing your honing by shaving without stropping. I've just assumed that my results would be better with the stropping and the shave would be more comfortable. Maybe one of these days I'll try it off of the hone. Old dog are slow to learn new tricks.

The fact is high carbon steel if left exposed to the air depending on how high the humidity is will begin to form rust very rapidly. It's just its nature like knowing the sun rises and sets every day. You have to realize the amount of rust at that stage will probably not affect the shave because the rust is more like a very thin layer not extending very far. It's more like a rust stain and the idea is that stropping removes this. You would probably need an SEM to see that kind of rust. I had an old cracked razor that I had polished up and then put it in a glass of water and within 2 days the razor was completely covered in rust. The layer was thin and could be polished off pretty easily but it was there and so easy to see a blind man could see it.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The fact is high carbon steel if left exposed to the air depending on how high the humidity is will begin to form rust very rapidly. It's just its nature like knowing the sun rises and sets every day. You have to realize the amount of rust at that stage will probably not affect the shave because the rust is more like a very thin layer not extending very far. It's more like a rust stain and the idea is that stropping removes this. You would probably need an SEM to see that kind of rust. I had an old cracked razor that I had polished up and then put it in a glass of water and within 2 days the razor was completely covered in rust. The layer was thin and could be polished off pretty easily but it was there and so easy to see a blind man could see it.

and you polished off that oxidation with a piece of leather-is that what you're saying?

I have had some stains appear on the body of a blade; I am not the most diligent, but I have never seen any red rust appear anywhere on a razor. that sort of oxidation will; superficially, rub right off. Oxidation as we usually see it takes a bit more abrasive power than we ascribe to leather- being softer than steel and iron oxide it is unlikely to do much ime and i cannot imagine that just because micro-rust is tiny that it rubs off easier.

Originally Posted by kevint

and you polished off that oxidation with a piece of leather-is that what you're saying?

I have had some stains appear on the body of a blade; I am not the most diligent, but I have never seen any red rust appear anywhere on a razor. that sort of oxidation will; superficially, rub right off. Oxidation as we usually see it takes a bit more abrasive power than we ascribe to leather- being softer than steel and iron oxide it is unlikely to do much ime and i cannot imagine that just because micro-rust is tiny that it rubs off easier.

No of course not. I used a dremmel but of course the blade had been immersed in water. I imagine a cape cod polishing cloth could have done the same job but just taken longer. Its all a matter of how thick the layer is. At the micro level your talking fractions of microns or less. Any friction can remove that.

Thanks for your reply. Water is required for rust. Using the strop to dry the edge is a good idea. oiling to preserve a pristine finish-that's cool.

Arguments that straps inhibit oxidation are accepted.

They work so well we never see it.

Maybe our best glimpse would be to take up an idle razor. We might consider how long it sat, and where. (Give that stuff a chance to grow...

the steel matters in all this as well.

I should have every expectation that if a single razor is shaving well today it should again tomorrow. If the next use is 1 year from now; i don't know how it'd do...

Eventually something does happen and we need to abrade the edge again.

Where does the edge go when it dies? Eaten alive by O or is it only broken and fatigued from whisker skirmishing, or was it rubbed out by the same actions that gave it birth? (strop

Originally Posted by kevint

and you polished off that oxidation with a piece of leather-is that what you're saying?

I don't think the leather will remove oxidation, that's what the linen is for.

I've done this one experiment several times now, where I take two identical razors, honed up to comparable edges. I take them both and shave with them, and then clean and dry one and put it away then use the other one the rest of the week. If I only strop on leather then both razors will be comparably dull by the end of the week, even though only one of them has actually been used regularly. But if I strop on linen every shave, then the razor I've been using/linen stropping will actually be sharper at the end of the week than the one in the rack. To me this all adds up to corrosion of the sort the modern mechanix article was describing.

[QUOTE=kevint;551228]Thanks for your reply. Water is required for rust. Using the strop to dry the edge is a good idea. oiling to preserve a pristine finish-that's cool.

Arguments that straps inhibit oxidation are accepted.

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Actually it is Oxygen that is the culprit regarding rust. It does however combine with H2O from the air/atmosphere to cause the "oxidation" that destroys ferrous based metal.

In the presence of oxygen, more water means more oxidation (rust).
As long as the metal is protected from water and air by oil/grease, the metal should be safe from corrosion.

I oil every razor I have - always.....