Thread: Layering scales with metall

Yesterday I was trying to rescale an old Sheffield but the horn blanks I had were pretty thin (2-2,5mm) although I was hoping the horn would be sturdy enough it turned out it probably was too thin, was flexing more than I would like to, so before proceeding I thought I'd try to to layer horn with a 0,5 mm (0,2 inch) brass sheet (as UKRob did with Filarmonica and copper)
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...larmonica.html

What I'd like to know is, how do you do this, I was thinking of using epoxy based glue, but am a little concerned how is this going to affect the flexibility (2 layers glued together). Is gluing the rough parts and finishing towards the final form a good idea? Do you by any chance try to pre-flex scales a little bit prior to/while gluing?

thanks

Are you sure you dislike the flexibility of your scales? 2-2.5 mm sounds about right in my book. I find that too unflexible scales are worse than flexible ones, as the flexible ones allow for better rotating resistance of the blade vs scales. As such, if I cannot pinch the scales until they meet when the wedge and blade are fixed, I thin them down.

thanks for your asnwer,... huh, to tell you the truth I am not sure, I have this same dilemma, the problem is I bought them 2-2,5 mm thick (i liked the color and and thought I might try), so this thickness is still in their raw shape, additionally the thickness of course is not totally the same throughout the blank/scale

Using a metal liner can add a nice look but make sure you use a flexible CA glue on it so they done separate and if you use any kind of power sander on it for clean up of the edge don't let it get to hot or it will separate as well. I use thick scales but that is just by choice, some people like them thin and light will i like them heavy and robust so its up to you but as long as it works and looks good.

"liner" now that's the word I couldn't remember (and didn't find much about the theme ) ... great tips for the heating, I used epoxy today,.. so it is what it is ... thanks

well, after using "2 component" glue (that btw usually works like a charm, I like these epoxy glues a lot), leaving it in a homemade press for 20h, well it almost fell apart when sanding (the scales didn't get very hot since I hand held them....) anyways, put the brass off, cleaned the horn, but am not sure I'm going to use it since (not only the thickness is 2,2 mm but) thickness is uneven, 1 scale is 1,3mm thick (at some part) and the overall blank thickness is 2,2 mm (and was sold as 2 mm blank)... I wuess I'm going to make another scale from a pairing blank and try to make it work, otherwise I'll just start over with new blanks,...

Liners

You have to take a few things into account when using liners

The scales have to flex, when they flex they create an inside curve to the liners which makes gluing them to each other very difficult especially when using two dissimilar materials..

When using metal you have a few more issues to consider. like weight and trying to create what is called a Mechanical Lock when gluing them together, many people have over come these issues by building Knife style scales using a spacer and trying to eliminate flex.. Many of the ones I have seen have issues with the pivot end, and the pinning they loosen easily or can never be tightened..

Vintage razor tangs taper from front to rear and from top to bottom, this means the scales flex to follow and the wedge is a wedge to help..

If you are going to line the scales, try to male sure the liner material will flex also to follow the main material..



If you are interested in continuing the quest to use metal liners I will try and explain how to create a Mechanical Lock, which is pretty funny because I spent years trying to do just the opposite when Bedding Rifle actions

hey gssixgun, thanks for your contribution,

.. so to make my story short.. my main worry (when I thought the glue would hold) was the loss of flex(ibility) when metal liner would be glued to the horn. In my current case the liner main purpose was suppose be stabilization of too thin horn blanks and to make them a bit sturdier/even. The blank was pretty thin to start with, plus 1 wasn't of the same thickness than the other the blank.. the result is on the pics below.. When I'd glue them to the liners I was going to eqalise their thickness

2 scales together


measured difference between the 2




When the glue still held liners on horn scales there was (by my approximation) still 1/3 of the initial flex present. In order to try to avoid the stress between 2 glued layers due to flexing I asked the "pre-felxing" question in my first post. When wighed the scales with wedge were app 3g heavier than the blade so I figured this should still enable the balence between the blade and scales.

I will (most probably) not pursue the liners scales for this razor at this time (I actually made camel bone wedge with brass liners, glued the layers with CA), but I will most probably come to this story in the future again (on my next restoration maybe ) , so please if you would be so kind do tell me/us your thoughts, experiences on this issue.

Gssixgun You were writing about choosing the liners that do flex... I guess brass shouldn't be too problematic in terms of flexing since it is quite "plastic"? I do not really understand the term "mechanic lock" you are refering to, so please do explain (my background is very weak on areas like engineering and similar). What sort of glue would you recommend for liners-horn contact? I am actually thinking that the 2 component glue wasn't mixed in the right proportions (1:1) since I just opened it (a double syringe kind of storage) and 1 component started to come out before the other.

thanks for the help

Would drilling a series of holes in the liner allow the glue to get a "mechanical" lock?

Bob

Bob hit the nail on the head, drilling a series of small holes through the liner and shallow into the horn, using 2 part Epoxy or Acra-Glass bedding epoxy should create a series of small Mechanical Locks. When you press the two together let the epoxy squeeze through the holes, wait until it dries to a Peanut Butter consistency and smear it across the metal..

One thing you must be careful of it that te two scales must be Identical in thickness and flex or as the settles it will warp to one side

Just remember that when the scales flex they are literally trying to pop the inner liner off of there