Thread: Pivot Pin hole stretched?

Originally Posted by Splashone

I find it simpler to use what ever size K&S tubing won't quite fit into the hole and then drill the tang for that tubing. Use the progression of tubing sizes to step down to 1/16" ID for your pin.

Than peen all in place,Use a 1/16th drill bit using a pinvice to clean up the new pivot,Done.

I recently faced a similar situation and the responses were likewise similar. I'm wondering if the OP is concerned that once unpinned and repined, the razor might not be the razor that he has now which it won't be. My mentor advised me against unpinning unless it was absolutely necessary. Why? In my case it is the unique nature of the pins on my razor, but in the OP's case he may simply not want to risk an accident, spend the coin for a professional....who knows. Sleeving will be invisible but how many craftsman can duplicate the original pinning? I like others do not see this as a simple decision. My mentor suggested that if the razor is dangerous to strop or to shave with.....then you will probably have to unpin. You know, Mentor sounds kind of formal...let's call him the Madman of Philly and if you ever want to see top notch work....find something he worked on....I don't think he knows less than perfect.

The holes don't get "worn out" or "stretched", it's the way they were made. I personally don't worry about it. Then again, I'm one of those guys who finds a deep dark patina beautiful too.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

The holes don't get "worn out" or "stretched", it's the way they were made. I personally don't worry about it. Then again, I'm one of those guys who finds a deep dark patina beautiful too.

Do you honestly believe the pivot holes were made elongated??

Do you honestly believe the pivot holes were made elongated??

Yes, because the holes where made with a punch while the steel was hot. They were not drilled, like most people would do today. The steel is much harder then the brass pins so, if anything was going to wear, it would be the pins.

Originally Posted by ChrisMeyer

Yes, because the holes where made with a punch while the steel was hot. They were not drilled, like most people would do today. The steel is much harder then the brass pins so, if anything was going to wear, it would be the pins.

Disagree,Every one I have ever seen has a huge amt of rust, The brass pin will work against the rust and steel to wear out the pivot hole.
JMO

He's right when it comes to the older English razors, their holes are most always off in some way or another. Think about it, hardened steel versus brass...pin will loose every time.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Do you honestly believe the pivot holes were made elongated??

Yes. They were hotpunched, not drilled. I know this for a fact.

And if you take a blade like that apart, you'll typically see an intact brass pin and a warped hole. If the wear would be such that 1/16 of hardened steel would be worn away, the brass would be long gone as well. Additionally, if you look closer, you'll see that the inside of the hole is uneven, and the hole is stretched in places where it has never been touched by the straight brass rod.

Blades like that looked like that when they left the anvil.

If cutlers those days thought it was perfectly fin for a high end razor like that to have that kind of pivot hole, I daresay it's not going to be a big problem. Btw, not only W&B had those kinds of pivot holes. Most of the sheffield blades of that erea I've taken apart had punched holes.

EDIT: I've even seen this on blades that have never seen use and of which the blade and tang didn't show any indication that they'd ever been used / gotten wet.

That type of hole was definitely punched - I have seen pictures of it and read contemporary accounts of it being done.

On a near mint razor that has been punched you can often see the distortion in the steel caused by the punch.

No doubt the punch started out reasonably small, round and even at the end, but whacking it through the tang so it hit the anvil must have distorted it sooner or later. I suppose the punch was annealed, re-shaped and re-tempered at some point, though, before it got too misshapen.

As for examples that have had a good deal of use (or which have been looked after badly) it is common to see a lot of rust and muck in the hole. Hardened steel still rusts. Any water left in the hole will rust the inside of the hole. Rust expands, so the pin is rubbing the soft rust off the inside of the hole. Which is subtly different to soft brass wearing hardened steel, which is extremely improbable.

Regards,
Neil

When I stripped down my razor yesterday, it had the combination of muck and just that Neil describes. Hopefully I'll take more diligent care of it than former owners seem to have!