Thread: No drills in Sheffield?

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Unless you have the blade walking forward and hitting the wedge, there is no need to bush the hole, IMO.
I also do not use thrust washers with old Sheffields in horn. To me, they work best as they were made.
Just me!

OK I'm all ears ready to receive this instruction. My HH Taylor is definitely old Sheff with good black horn currently soaking in Neets F Oil.

When I unpinned it I noticed no washer between tang and horn. So it is recommended to repin it like that with no inside washer ???

Most of my restores have been done without washers. When I took them out of the d scales they didn't have any in so I never replaced them. I have used them on blades that just gave me fits for some reason and wouldn't quite center for a reason that I couldn't figure out. But that is rare.

Simple old mechanics when using ever changing natural materials. The big old tapered tangs would wedge into and spread the scales on the way in on both sides and align the scales to the blade. The sloppy hole allowed for some movement, keeping things from binding-up.

If you bush the pin-hole and add spacers, none of this works anymore as the tang no longer spreads the scales and the blade cannot 'float' in them. Just a simple hinge at that point. Also friction loss by adding the spacers, no more tight pivot.

I have done it, had problems. Undo it, problems gone!

YMMV

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Simple old mechanics when using ever changing natural materials. The big old tapered tangs would wedge into and spread the scales on the way in on both sides and align the scales to the blade. The sloppy hole allowed for some movement, keeping things from binding-up.

If you bush the pin-hole and add spacers, none of this works anymore as the tang no longer spreads the scales and the blade cannot 'float' in them. Just a simple hinge at that point. Also friction loss by adding the spacers, no more tight pivot.

I have done it, had problems. Undo it, problems gone!

YMMV

Well now you tell me......

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Simple old mechanics when using ever changing natural materials. The big old tapered tangs would wedge into and spread the scales on the way in on both sides and align the scales to the blade. The sloppy hole allowed for some movement, keeping things from binding-up.

If you bush the pin-hole and add spacers, none of this works anymore as the tang no longer spreads the scales and the blade cannot 'float' in them. Just a simple hinge at that point. Also friction loss by adding the spacers, no more tight pivot.

I have done it, had problems. Undo it, problems gone!

YMMV

Now that you mention it, I looked in my to do box and the W&B, Double Duck and M. George & Son all have loose pivots and tapered tangs. Hmmm. They seem rediculously large. The DD had spacers.
May give your idea a go.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

Those old guys were doing it longer than you, and there ain't no reason to reinvent the wheel. The mechanics of the steaight were for a reason as Tom has already pointed out. Tc

Originally Posted by Clayglen

Now that you mention it, I looked in my to do box and the W&B, Double Duck and M. George & Son all have loose pivots and tapered tangs. Hmmm. They seem rediculously large. The DD had spacers.
May give your idea a go.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

Indeed, an old Wade and Butcher and M George and Son have likely dry horn scales and lots of wear at the pivot.
No doubt they should be loose. The scales on a (much newer) Double-duck are likely shrunken causing the same phenomena.

I was in reference to old razors as they were made, or as being repinned in the old fashion.

Dang I was gonna be funny and put up for sale "Extra Ezpecial" W+B tang hole filler pellets, made for just 5 days in June 1888, Pssss hehehahaha

Yep, pound em in and drill, Shazam!! 0nly 19.95 Each!! Only 51,0000000000000 left at this price.

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Those old guys were doing it longer than you, and there ain't no reason to reinvent the wheel. The mechanics of the steaight were for a reason as Tom has already pointed out. Tc

Indeed.
Those people made hundreds of thousands of razor in their own lifetime, and were taught by a long line of people who did the same. It they did things a certain way, there's probably a good reason for it. If you don't know the reason, 'fixing' their work is not the best of ideas.

While I don't hot punch my holes, I do leave some slop to allow things to move and flex without forcing things.

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Those old guys were doing it longer than you, and there ain't no reason to reinvent the wheel. The mechanics of the steaight were for a reason as Tom has already pointed out. Tc

Indeed, there is a whole thread here somewhere on the mechanics of scales with regard to tang taper and wedges -- a detail I had never noticed until I read the thread then looked at quality razors closely as they were opened and closed.

As others have said, it was a method perfected by real craftsmen from long ago based on a lot of experience, and my approach, based on my wise father's personal version of a familiar saying was, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it. If you try you are likely to f--k it up".

I ignored him once or twice and screwed things up out of curiosity. When he found out he just stared at me with the look that says, "you poor dumb xxxx -- you'll learn". I have learned and I leave things that work alone, most of the time.