Thread: Washers

Thanks for the answers gentlemen!

I had noted that washers could be domed with the sets you guys mention. However, a domed washer is not a cup washer.

The question was really about the relative merits of cup washers and flat washers.

When looking for washers, I could only find flat washers. I have looked pretty hard for suitable cup washers, and the only option seemed to be getting them made to order, until you pointed me in the direction of Mr Kennedy. I browsed a few of his listings, and I think I have got my answer: "... These are small, rounded shoulder cup washers that are as close to factory originals as you will find. These are not the flat, or domed from flat, washers that most restorationists use today...." (https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-factory-...MAAOSwMNxXVEbo). I guess Mr Kennedy gets his fabricated to order.

A possible solution is turning a set of dies, to stamp out a cup washer from a flat washer. This is the direction my research is going in.

But, this still doesn't deal with the relative merits of flat and cup washers. Is it just aesthetics?

Aesthetics! You got your own answer. In there use flat or domed/cupped do the same thing. Just keep in mind that if you do make your own with a punch or dapping block of some kind, you need smaller washers too to put inside the cupped washers. They work as a filler to the cup to keep them from miss shaping while peening.
I do t remember who he is but there is a guy on eBay that also sells solid cupped or stepped washers for razors. They look and work great. But keep in mind that they wont form to a curved scales they need to be used on flat scales.

Keep us posted on how it goes for ya

Originally Posted by Montgomery

The question was really about the relative merits of cup washers and flat washers.

This is just a guess. If you use a flat washer when you do your pinning that still puts most of the pressure on the edges of the hole in the scales. I believe domed washers would transfer more pressure away from the edges of the hole leading to less likelihood of cracks radiating out from the hole edges from too much pressure. Besides the domed ones are more aesthetically pleasing.

Bob

Mr. Kennedy makes his collars himself.

Domed or flat, its just Aesthetics. I've done both.

Yup, you can make them look exactly like a cupped collar, and a domed collar will spread out the peening force over a larger area of the scale to the outer surface of the collar.

A domed collar will conform to the shape of a curved scale and the edges will be flush to the scale.

Additionally you can tailor the size, (dimension) to match any collar, by turning down the size of the washer easily buy bolting it onto a mandrel, (nut, bolt and spacer tube) and chucking in a drill or drill press and holding a file to the edge to the desired size, as demonstrated in the polishing sequence of the post, linked to in the post. Instead of polish use a file or sandpaper.

Years ago, Voidmonster handmade (no lathe) a die from a steel rod, chucked in a drill press, turned and formed triple stacked collars, from brass sheet. The collars came out very well. I’m pretty sure he posted about his process.

This was before AJ started selling his stacked washers. I’m sure you could do the same with small cupped collars, but why. Domed washers look the same and work fine.

AJ makes nice stuff, can’t go wrong with his collars. I use his triple stacked collars, small ones, I dome small flat washers, made tons of them, buy flat washers from Micro Fasteners.

Thanks for the responses...

Originally Posted by BobH

This is just a guess. If you use a flat washer when you do your pinning that still puts most of the pressure on the edges of the hole in the scales. I believe domed washers would transfer more pressure away from the edges of the hole leading to less likelihood of cracks radiating out from the hole edges from too much pressure. Besides the domed ones are more aesthetically pleasing.

Bob

That makes a lot of sense!

Originally Posted by Gasman

... Just keep in mind that if you do make your own with a punch or dapping block of some kind, you need smaller washers too to put inside the cupped washers.

Interesting! I have never found smaller washers inside cup washers when dismantling vintage razors, although I have never dismantled older C19 razors with those big domed washers.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I’m sure you could do the same with small cupped collars, but why. Domed washers look the same and work fine.

This is the key piece of information, thanks!

A question about doming washers, does the doming process alter the size significantly? Is there any need to start with washers a size smaller?

cup Washer and the washer that goes inside the cup.

Since you're asking about the functionality the domed washers are somewhat stronger - the same principle of why an egg is very strong under compression from outside but quite easy for the baby bird to break from the inside, or the arched ceilings in big old buildings like cathedrals or palaces.

I don't know if it matters that much for razors, but may be it does. It's fairly easy to find out though:

Take two razors that are the same, e.g. from a set of 7 or a pair, or something else. Pin one of them with flat washers, the other with domed (at the pivot), making sure to tighten them the same tension. (The way I measure the tension is to flip the razor with the blade down and tighten it just until the blade stops opening under its weight.)
Once the both razors are tightened the same alternate using them for few months. That way over time both razors should get the sam amount of opening and closing. And then if one razor stays tighter longer than the other then we can suspect that it's washers are slightly better functionally. Unless we've missed some other factor that's different for both, but that's why if several people do the same experiment with a bunch of razors we may be able to make a statistically significant conclusion

Once the experiment is over, if you're a bit OCD repin the razors to have the same washers again, so they match

Well, you've gotten lots of good answers; either can fit the bill for most applications, and it's mostly about aesthetics, how closely you want to replicate originals, etc. I too have used just about all of Austin's collars with success, and have also gotten excellent products from this Romanian seller on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/sr_manufact...1&_ipg=&_from=Their products are excellent, and it might get to you quicker in Germany; takes forever across the pond.

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Well, you've gotten lots of good answers; either can fit the bill for most applications, and it's mostly about aesthetics, how closely you want to replicate originals, etc. I too have used just about all of Austin's collars with success, and have also gotten excellent products from this Romanian seller on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/sr_manufact...1&_ipg=&_from=Their products are excellent, and it might get to you quicker in Germany; takes forever across the pond.

Thats the guy I was talking about with the solid collars. Thanks for the link Aaron.