Thread: That Evil black stuff we call Devil's Spit...

This is a question I received today in my PM box and I decided it would be better to open up a thread then to just give my opinion...

Mornin Glen,
Three questions,
What is black devil spit/where does it come from?

How does it get on a razor?

How do you get it off a razor(especially ones with a nice finish on them that you don't want to sandpaper)?



Here is what I think, But please add your thoughts and opinions to this thread...

What is Devil's Spit :
The black marks on many vintage razors that seem to be neither rust nor pitting just deep black stains...

Where does it come from / how does it get on the razor:
IMHO they are water stains mixed with skin, soap, who knows what else, and left in the 7th level of hell to percolate...

How to get it off the razor:
I have never found a way other then very aggressive sanding/buffer work to get rid of this stuff.. It also seems that once you get into it you will find pitting under there anyway so that needs to come out too...

So that is my story, now lets hear yours...

Glenn - thanks for this. I fully agree that short of aggressive sanding, nothing can be done.

I also fully believe that it is a sign of a cancer underneath - I have yet to find one that I've sanded that hasn't contained pits underneath - like somehow it was rusting from the inside-out.

Mark

Glen,

Great post!! I was getting ready to ask someone about those spots. I have a Wapi that has a true mirror finish, you could comb your hair in this thing, however, that being said there are two distinct spots at the edge of the razor, that aren't rust or pitting, just black spots..

I knew the devil was stalking me, I just didn't know how close... lol

thanks man,
D

[QUOTE=gssixgun;450433]
What is Devil's Spit :
The black marks on many vintage razors that seem to be NEITHER RUST NOR PITTING just deep black stains...

QUOTE]

If you guys have rust or pitting then that is not what we are talking about.

Btw Old School that pic i showed ya earlier may well have been rust in some parts devil spit in others.

I think the main thing to point out about devil spit is that its not of the razor, like rust is part of the razor that has changed, wheras devil spit seems to have been placed on the razor in some form and then maybe changed into its current form. Meaning that if you manage to remove some of it with say your fingernail underneath you will find shiny metal that is in no way pitted or attatched to the devil spit.

So far me glen and shavesalot have seen it, thats three, I think that means nobody can say we are paranoid/delusional.

I would suggest asking somebody from a big razor factory, they may have stored razors over time and encountered this problem on a larger scale and have more scientific findings.

V/R
Best Regards
Greg

Originally Posted by GregJDS

if you manage to remove some of it with say your fingernail underneath you will find shiny metal that is in no way pitted or attatched to the devil spit.

Glen (and others I'm sure, including myself) have found that once you get into it, there is usually pitting under there that needs to be removed anyway

I think the difference is the look on the razor in yer hand...

Black rust looks like "rust" it has bumps and stuff, craters, pits, etc:

Devil Spit is a slick smooth deceiving looking stain from the pits of hell, that really looks as though you could just use MAAS and it would come right off....
BUT NOOOOOOoooooooo this stuff just gets worse the harder you try...

I guess it would technically be called a "water stain" ???????? I liked Devil Spit, and no it is not a Glen original I know I read it someplace....

Sorry both of you are right Glen does say that pitting seems to be underneath, hmm which would make it seem to be rust.

Although i have never seen any pitting underneat, mine has always just been placed neartly on top of fresh steel.

either way it is very difficult to get off, those tiny spots seem to be the worst. The ones mentioned earlier on a wapi.

They tend to be present on razors that do not need much work, razors that are nearly perfect except for a few odd devil spits. This is annoying because obviously you dont want to sand the whole razor.
Today I have had a good bit of luck with using a buffer and black emery compound which will remove it without doing too much damage.

Interesting note: I thought the black emery would remove goldwash and etching, I lost some goldwash ona goldedge tang which I expected. However the etching on puma 89 specials seem to be immune to black emery. I didnt push too hard on it but it was enough pressure to remove the devil spit and less enough to save the etch. Double win.

I think its similar to what you see a lot in the restoration of old cars. The surface looks OK but with a few little discoloured areas once you get the paintwork of the metal, but this soon develops into blackish areas, which after sanding reveal grey/blue areas.

What I think is happening is that the pH value of the initial corrosion has become stabilised/inert on the surface, but the micro-environment below it has began to fail due to the capping piece (the stabilised area) sealing it in. It carries on growing, possibly along the demarcation lines of the granular crystals forming the steel.

The process takes the form of a galvanic/electrolytic reaction - the area below the inert spot is still acidic and the force goes down and sidways, then up again, leaving little indication on the surface.

The process begins by an area of low oxygen concentration surrounded by an area of high oxygen concentration. Possible defects in the metal - poor treatment of the metal during manufacture, small slag inclusions, or even a small scratch act as a focus. When such an area comes into contact with water, the properties of the water come into play - it could be acidic, neutral or alkaline, have salts like calcium and chlorine dissolved in it, have oxygen and traces of other metals like lead and copper in it, etc, etc.

Some studies have shown that certain types of bacteria hasten the reaction. This is because they produce oxygen as a waste product.

Just wiping a blade will not prevent this type of electrolytic attack - the blade is awash with water for an amount of time, but all that is required really is a very thin film of water, even the amount absrobed into a localised defect or a scratch.

On the other hand, it could well be the agency of of demons hell-bent on wreaking havoc...

My vote is on hell spawn and I've been trying to get mine off of my first razor for weeks.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is a question I received today in my PM box and I decided it would be better to open up a thread then to just give my opinion...

Mornin Glen,
Three questions,
What is black devil spit/where does it come from?

How does it get on a razor?

How do you get it off a razor(especially ones with a nice finish on them that you don't want to sandpaper)?



Here is what I think, But please add your thoughts and opinions to this thread...

What is Devil's Spit :
The black marks on many vintage razors that seem to be neither rust nor pitting just deep black stains...

Where does it come from / how does it get on the razor:
IMHO they are water stains mixed with skin, soap, who knows what else, and left in the 7th level of hell to percolate...

How to get it off the razor:
I have never found a way other then very aggressive sanding/buffer work to get rid of this stuff.. It also seems that once you get into it you will find pitting under there anyway so that needs to come out too...

So that is my story, now lets hear yours...

Here's my story Glen, some great reading here, Neil summed up the process....nice find of a Palmera...covered in Devil's Spit, stuff ain't coming off...so DOOMED!

So Glen, can "Devil's Spit" count as a "finish" on a razor when you've given it your all?

Nap, then one last try with some steel wool and WD40...thanks Rez!!

.............