Thread: Torx screw etc pivot pin question

One thing I do notice really fast with this discussion that is not being brought up is pivot hole size...

Those of you that are customizing and making blades, seem to favor a larger hole size and adjustable pins...is this because of a knife making background????

Also I am just not seeing the cost factor... we are talking pennies no matter the way you go...

A #0 screw uses the exact same 1/16 thru hole perfectly. A beefier #2 screw requires a larger hole though...

I agree cost is not a factor for me.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

A #0 screw uses the exact same 1/16 thru hole perfectly. A beefier #2 screw requires a larger hole though...

I agree cost is not a factor for me.

I was talking more of the Torx/Slotted in the 1/8 size and I believe the others are 5/64....or perhaps the #2

The #0 Microfastener stuff we are all pretty familiar with, I still use those for mock ups ....

I've been lurking because I'm actually quite interested in this (still practicing/trying resto stuff in the background, just don't have much time) and something that's come up as a pro is possibly switching scales. And something I keep wondering is, unless you make your own scales, or can afford to have changing tastes, how many people actually do switch out their scales? Like I'm sure you custom guys can do it on a whim, but if I had to pay $30 for a set of scales I definitely wouldn't be doing it that often. My other issue is cleaning- and I will say that it would be nice to take apart the scales every year or so to wipe the blade down, but if you look at the 50+ year old razors on the bay, sure some look like **** but a lot of them really aren't that dirty/corroded so I wonder how necessary that is if you take great care of your blade.

Glen, in taking apart older razors I learned that most of them have punched pivot holes (rather than drilled), and that many of them are not round and not perpendicular to the blade. That irritates the heck out of me, and I find it to be one of the things that cause a razor not to close properly. Therefore, I often drill out the pivot hole to make it perpendicular and round. Then I use an appropriate sized pin. If I use barrel 1/8" barrel pivots, I use then next large drill bit that I have.

I believe it is all in the details- what type of adjustable system vs. what type of traditional pinning vs. who does the work. Let's say person X uses adjustable pins of a certain style while persons Y and Z both pin razors traditionally. Person X's system may be better than person Y's, but person Z might do better than both of the others. I think that the disadvantages of traditional pins stated here have been exaggerated and same for the advantages of adjustables. Really, when taken care of properly, you may never need to disassemble your razor fully to 'clean' and likewise you may never need to retighten a pin. Still it's all in the details- we all treat our razors differently.

200+ Years of razor makers did it the way it was always done because that's the way it was always done, not because it made more sense or was superior. In days of yore, folding knives were all pinned, too, but pinning has some shortcomings.

As a razor maker, I use 3/32 pins because I can. smaller pins are easier to peen, I think, but also easier to bend. The larger the pin, the more sturdy the build will be. And I pretty much insist on using adjustable pins for my customers because I've had customers want to keep their razors but go from 1/4 hollow to full hollow or have some rust removed from the tang inside the razor scales or even with one customer - break one side of a set of ivory scales (dropped it and took a big chip out of the pivot end tip on one side). It makes maintenance a hell of a lot easier without any sacrifice except that "pinned look". I didn't like the #0 washers as pins from the start because they just didn't look like the genuine article from days gone by, and that got me thinking about why in the heck they used pins anyway since almost all high end modern cutlery uses torx or some similar screw system. Well, the answer became obvious when I realized what they had to work with 200 years ago. That's what was affordable and available.

With custom work from the blade to the scales, I have the freedom to use what works best and until I can find something better than the adjustable pin system I'm using, that's what I'll keep using.

But if customers insist, I'll use brass rods and washers on their razor. As long as they know the pros and cons and realize they'll never be taking that puppy apart for any reason, I'm all good with it.

Originally Posted by ChrisMeyer

Glen, in taking apart older razors I learned that most of them have punched pivot holes (rather than drilled), and that many of them are not round and not perpendicular to the blade. That irritates the heck out of me, and I find it to be one of the things that cause a razor not to close properly. Therefore, I often drill out the pivot hole to make it perpendicular and round. Then I use an appropriate sized pin. If I use barrel 1/8" barrel pivots, I use then next large drill bit that I have.

To be perfectly honest, I have NEVER had to re-drill or ream a pivot hole on any razor because of problems it caused. The argument of 'the pivot hole was punched crooked' has been argued over and over and in my opinion still holds zero merit. Problems in terms of the razor not closing properly usually stem from problems with the tang or blade itself than with the pivot hole.

Originally Posted by Philadelph

To be perfectly honest, I have NEVER had to re-drill or ream a pivot hole on any razor because of problems it caused. The argument of 'the pivot hole was punched crooked' has been argued over and over and in my opinion still holds zero merit. Problems in terms of the razor not closing properly usually stem from problems with the tang or blade itself than with the pivot hole.

True. The punched holes can look as crooked as a dog's hind leg but aren't the problem with the blade closing properly. Crooked tangs, warped tangs, scales that aren't flat or have uneven flexibility (provided a real wedge is used) all can make a razor a real b**** to set properly in scales. The only time I've ever reamed or drilled out a punch was when the edges of the punched hole were so crooked or evil looking that I thought it might cause severe pin wear after enough openings and closing. Not many were that rough, though.

I agree that the shape of the tang is a bigger factor than whether or not the pin hole is round and perpendicular. I think every razor I've taken apart has had a pin hole large enough that its shape won't matter if you are pinning it with1/16" pins. However, if you start shoving larger pin through that same hole (leaving less wiggle room), it does begin to matter whether the hole is perpendicular. Also, as I mentioned, it irritates the heck out of me if that hole is not round and perpendicular.Therefore, I often drill them out. I usually counter sink each side of the pivot hole too. To each his own...