Thread: Did I ruin two eBay razors today?

Originally Posted by Darxus

I've been thinking the most convenient way to keep my razor from rusting is to store it in alcohol (instead of oiling it after each use). I've read about this being done with double-edged razor blades. Of course, coming across this subject of alcohol causing rust is bothering me.

I think the best information I've found is here: Is Rubbing Alcohol and Steel a good idea?
"The reason the metal in question rusted after an alcohol bath is because it had just been cleaned (i.e., whatever water-repellent oil may have been present has now been removed), and moisture clung to the bare steel. Alcohol will not 'cause' metals to rust."
They also mention the possibility that the alcohol evaporated away leaving only water.

Not to be blunt, but that quote is stupid. The phrase "the alcohol evaporated away leaving only water" proves the writer was a moron, or stupid, or charitably, just ignorant.

If you think that is the "best information," then do some more reading.

Alcohols you could buy over the counter are miscible with water. They mix together at any ratio. The mix evaporates together, the water is not left behind. The disinfecting property of alcohol is due to the dehydration damage it causes during evaporation and the rate of evaporation can be altered by its ratio with water. Approximately 70% alcohol is optimal for both ethanol and isopropanol. It is the evaporation that does the disinfecting, not the soaking. By leaving razors in the alcohol for 2 hours, the razors were left in a water solution for two hours, because over the counter rubbing alcohol is diluted with water, and that is why the razors rusted.

Something odd is happening here, which nobody, including me, seems to be explaining fully. Here, for what it is worth, is the Wikipedia article with an account of what rubbing alcohol comes out of the factory containing:

://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubbing_alcohol

That is very little water in it. I don't know if it is entirely true that water and an alcohol won't evaporate separately, which is a function of vapor pressure as well as boiling-points. Where the mixture becomes incapable of thermal separation is at a high concentration of alcohol, meaning that the alcohol obtainable by distillation will always be some way short of pure. I think, in the absence of some complex and deliberate treatment, Utopian is right, and this problem was not caused by rubbing alcohol becoming excessively watery through evaporation. But the usual US formulation includes less than 2.5% water, and I don't see anything in the other ingredients that seems likely to have the effect desctibed.

Some bacteria, incidentally, can survive in alcohol, but I think a very considerable part of its bactericidal effect doesn't require evaporation. I have seen museum biological specimens which have been preserved in alcohol for very long periods, and I'm sure that was simply tipped out of a bottle, diluted to the 70% or so which is indeed the optimum for antisepsis, and immediately sealed up in the specimen jar.

That 70% or so turns up somewhere else. In the pre-stainless steel days, it was common practice to store scalpels in a solution of three parts alcohol to one of lysol, which is 2% carbolic acid. This took care of sterility (or perhaps near-sterility) and rusting. I've found often enough that near-pure alcohol does not rust bright steel, and can be useful for loosening rust. It would, if anything else tends to cause rusting, remove any protective oil etc.

It would indeed be interesting to know whether the cake pan was aluminium. I think the chances of electrolytic corrosion would be much increased if there were some other metal besides steel present, or if there were some connection between the out-of-alcohol parts of the blades, such as leaning on the edge, or suspension on a metal rod through the pivot holes.

This is something that begs to be tested with a worthless piece of polished carbon steel in a non-metallic vessel, and suspended first on a dry plastic rod, then on wire.

I believe most over the counter rubbing alcohol in the US is only 70% alcohol.

Alcohol and water will readily evaporate separately, that's the very principle behind distillation. It is also true that water and ethanol are infinitely soluble in each other, both being polar solvents, while that varies for other alcohols. Ethanol is also hygroscopic, which means it attracts water out of the air. The antiseptic properties of ethanol have nothing to do with evaporation and are due to it being toxic to most living cells in sufficient concentration.

Originally Posted by Darxus

I've been thinking the most convenient way to keep my razor from rusting is to store it in alcohol (instead of oiling it after each use). I've read about this being done with double-edged razor blades. Of course, coming across this subject of alcohol causing rust is bothering me.

I think the best information I've found is here: Is Rubbing Alcohol and Steel a good idea?
"The reason the metal in question rusted after an alcohol bath is because it had just been cleaned (i.e., whatever water-repellent oil may have been present has now been removed), and moisture clung to the bare steel. Alcohol will not 'cause' metals to rust."
They also mention the possibility that the alcohol evaporated away leaving only water.

The big issue is that alcohol removes any oil or wax that will
protect the steel. Also alcohol will pull water in from the
air. i.e. at about 45% you are not going to remove water
by distillation.

Aluminum is reactive, it is not a good container.

The good news is that red rust is almost easy to clean off.
Use WD-40 and something abrasive (steal wool 000, or
3M Wet dry abrasive paper and rub the rust off. Finish
with a light oil and hone. The WD of WD-40 is water
displacement. It will help deliver a protective layer of
oil to the steel as the rust is removed.

Originally Posted by MickRussell

Alcohol and water will readily evaporate separately, that's the very principle behind distillation. It is also true that water and ethanol are infinitely soluble in each other, both being polar solvents, while that varies for other alcohols. Ethanol is also hygroscopic, which means it attracts water out of the air. The antiseptic properties of ethanol have nothing to do with evaporation and are due to it being toxic to most living cells in sufficient concentration.

Sorry, you're wrong. The rate of evaporation is critical for effective disinfection and that rate is determined by the concentration of alcohol, with 70% being optimal. I don't have time to elaborate at the moment so I'll just get back to you later, unless someone else beats me to it.

I'm no Scientist, but I do believe that Alcohol evaporates at a much lower temperature than water! I regularly use a 90& Alcohol purchased from the grocery store (Safeway) to disinfect razors and other items!

A simple dip and allowing to air dry is all that's required.

If you wish to use bleach, use only 1 tsp per gallon!!!! Just dip and allow to air dry!! This meets the Washington State's Health Dept. Sanitation Requirements!! I would then rinse with water rinse it off, wipe it off and allow to dry !!! Then oil the blade and but it away!!

No, I'm not. Evaporation and evaporation rate has nothing to do with sterilisation. Alcohol kills by disolving cell membranes and denaturing the cell contents, often requiring SOAKING for up to 30 minutes at 70% concentration.
I found dozens of sites confirming this but I tender this one in particular: UCSB Science Line

Originally Posted by MickRussell

Alcohol and water will readily evaporate separately, that's the very principle behind distillation. It is also true that water and ethanol are infinitely soluble in each other, both being polar solvents, while that varies for other alcohols. Ethanol is also hygroscopic, which means it attracts water out of the air. The antiseptic properties of ethanol have nothing to do with evaporation and are due to it being toxic to most living cells in sufficient concentration.

Caution...
It is hard to find ethanol outside of a liquor store.
Most alcohol that folk get is Isopropyl alcohol.

Isopropyl alcohol is a good tool for sanitizing
but must be followed by an application of a
safe oil or wax because it will have removed
any oil or wax from the surface.

Since it is not commonly produced via distillation
high concentration almost anhydrous
product is common.

Discussions about sanitizing and antiseptics are difficult.
Being imprecise complicates things....

This link tells me that I have a lot to learn
about this topic:
Disinfectant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So back to rust removal.

First off you guys are arguing two different things here Sterilization and Rust Removal in a thread that was posted 5 years ago...

Honestly there is only one solution and zero arguments,,, Go Test It !!! on Straight Razors... Post your results and document with pictures I would test it on a few different razors too because we all know there are differences out there...

Looking forward to the new threads...