Thread: Discussion: Why do we use pivot washers?

I've thought about this a lot and I still cannot come to an end answer. Why do we use washers at the pivot between blade and scales? I'm looking for a real answer that explains a serious advantage. Most old blades didn't have them. Some did, but they were always very thin- much more so than most that a lot of guys today use. I personally use .003" thick material and make them myself, but why? I've NEVER seen a razor with problems on the blade or scales (besides rubbing, but no real wear) due to not having a washer at the pivot. So why do we bother?

Having a bushing between a friction point is always better than not having one IMHO. Alex, you've forgot more than I ever knew about restoring and making razors but that is my story and I'm sticking to it. BTW, if I buy a high end custom from any maker I would feel something was missing if those thin washers weren't between the blade and the scales.

I guess it just helps with friction as Jimmy says, as well as stopping the shank rubbing on the scales and helps centre the blade.

The washers prevent binding on the scales which may reduce scale breakage and reduces wear over time which keeps the blade snug in the scales.

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I've thought about this a lot and I still cannot come to an end answer. Why do we use washers at the pivot between blade and scales? I'm looking for a real answer that explains a serious advantage. Most old blades didn't have them. Some did, but they were always very thin- much more so than most that a lot of guys today use. I personally use .003" thick material and make them myself, but why? I've NEVER seen a razor with problems on the blade or scales (besides rubbing, but no real wear) due to not having a washer at the pivot. So why do we bother?

I would disagree here, A much higher percentage of the ones I pop have them, then don't, I would say in the neighborhood of 80% and many of the scales that don't have actual washers, have a raised dais that serves as a washer in effect...
Do you need them??? I would really tend to say it depends on what the scales are made of first, then how you set up the flex and bow, as to the angle of the scales touching the razor....

With what you do Alex using mostly CF, and ultra thin at that, plus making your own razor with the tang angle where you want it, I bet you don't need to use washers...

For the record: it's just something I think about, not that I'm planning to not use washers! (ahem, Jimmy, ahem)

Hmm, I think eliminating friction might be the answer that makes the most sense.

I don't think it helps to center the blade at all- there are far too many other factors that decide this and if both washers are the same thickness (which they should be IMO), it makes no difference.

Scale breakage and wear is no concern really with any of the stuff I use. With wood I suppose it contributes.

I would pretty much guess the opposite Glen- 80% without washers. Maybe closer to 60 or 70% though. Just my own experience. Your observation on scale material, flex and bow all bring up a good question though- maybe on new, high strength scale materials that were never used in the 19th or most of the 20th century the NEED for washers and their purpose changes?

Keep the conversation coming, I like it!

I was talking with Max not too long ago, and one advantage he mentioned is that the washers prevent the razor from rubbing on the scales, which can scratch the razor. Probably not a huge deal, unless the razor has a highly polished finish in the pivot area. Washers can also make it easier to blow water out of the pivot, should it get wet.

In my extremely limited experience (none, compared to any of you guys) in pinning scales, all I can say is this:

When I use washers, I have found that I am forced to do a really good job of peening the rod heads so that the blade is nice and tight (Many many many many many light taps ).

If I don't use washers, I can "get away with" not peening a razor perhaps not as tight as I should to make sure it won't come apart later. The friction of the blade against the scales means I might stop peening before I should.

If I do it correctly (I think) then the blade still moves easily because of the washers, but it's tight enough to not flop around. Plus, those rivet heads look really nice afterward.

Just my $0.02.

Gotta agree with gssixgun, I've only seen a couple razors that didn't have the washers....maybe 80% of the ones I pick up have them. I see it like this...at least it's easier to get some mineral oil into the pivot when I oil the blades. Likewise, if water has accidentally soaked into the natural material of the scales, I don't want the whole tang sitting in water. The washers keep enough room that hopefully the scales have some airflow to dry out without causing damage.

I think that I buy the different materials approach that you guys are talking about. I doubt that you need a washer with your CF scales Alex, but I'd prefer to use them on wood scales to prevent friction and wear.

Just to fan the flames, I have not done as many as Alex or Glen, but I think only 1 out of the 20 or so of just my own razors I've worked on did not have washers. *pulls pin and walks away