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  1. #1
    Loudmouth FiReSTaRT's Avatar
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    Default Fitting the liners and Padauk question

    I just finished shaping and the intial 180 grit work on my Padauk scales. They are still losely attached to each other. This raises several questions...

    1) Would it be better to cut the brass wide and sand it down to match the wood or the other way around?
    2) Should I do the liners at this stage or after I finish-sand the wood? I am assuming at this stage.
    3) Should I use some finish on the bottom of the wooden scales before fitting the liners or will the epoxy give enough protection?
    4) There are some hollow spots along the grain of the padauk that seem to be a natural feature but I don't like their appearance. I believe that more sanding won't do anything to eliminate'em. Should I leave them as is, or is there a particular finish that will do a better job of concealing them? My options are CA and Truoil.
    Thank you in advance for your input gentlemen.

    P.S. This is my first scale-making from scratch project.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ToxIk's Avatar
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    I'm asumming your using the term bolsters interchangably with liners...

    For the liners, I think cutting them abit wide and grinding them down should be alright. Obviously, the closer you can cut, the easier it will be. I think the more important thing would probably be to do all the rough work at once; meaning, cut only the basic shape of your scales (with some excess), cut the liners, glue em together, and then finish up the final shape of your scales.

    When I was working with padauk, I pretty much had the shape of the scales finished, and only then realized how light the wood was and decided to put liners on. As a result, I lost a tad of the shape. Barely any as I was being careful, but I probably could haved saved myself some headaches had I done it in the aforementioned process.

    Regarding the finishing of the liners. I always polish them, but after that, well... still working on it. vlad mentioned that he puts a coat of CA on the exposed side of the liner to prevent corrosion. I tried this on some brass, but I found the CA would chip/peel, even after roughing the surface. There's some other things I've been meaning to try for the purpose, but haven't yet gotten around to it.

    Padauk does seem to have very large pores that run with the grain. If you remember the wostenholm I did a while ago, I filled the pores with brass dust. All I did was take a grinding wheel to some brass shim to make it. Not too sure what else you can do about it 'cept fill it with something.

    Oh, forgot to mention... Padauk being as soft as it is, I'd go with the CA as the finish instead of tru-oil. Padauk is soft enough that a fingernail pressed into it will leave a mark, so, having that nice layer of acrylic polymer that a CA finish gives, will protect the wood from any such dent or marks.
    Last edited by ToxIk; 11-10-2006 at 10:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Loudmouth FiReSTaRT's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips Jason and I made the correction lol.
    1) So should I just fill those pores with the dust first and cover them with CA or should I mix the dust with CA and then do the first coat like that? Do I rub in the dust?
    2) What grit did you use to rough up the liners?
    3) Would using a clear epoxy as the first coat hold onto the brass better? Would I get a decent surface out of it it or would it be full of bubbles?

  4. #4
    Senior Member garythepenman's Avatar
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    Here's my few cents worth.

    When I use liners I always cut and sand to the shape and size I want first. These then also act as a template. I drill both pivot and butt hole at this stage.

    I then epoxy the liners to what ever wood I'm using and cut around the liners as close as possible. I rough up both the wood and liners to offer a key for the epoxy (more surface to bind to).

    I then re-drill the holes through the wood as well and use tacking pins through the holes to line both scales up. You can then carpet-tape them together.

    I then sand the wood down to the liners and shape and bevel as required. The liners offer some resistance when you get the wood level with them.

    If I'm going for 3 pins I drill this last once the scales are fully shaped and sanded.

    Hope this helps.

    Gary

  5. #5
    Senior Member ToxIk's Avatar
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    Gary's method for scales with liners sounds clean and easy to me; I'd use that.

    As for roughing the surface, I just used some 220grit I happened to have. I suppose the rougher the better, but 100-200grit should be just fine.

    Any good epoxy should work fine to hold the liners. You don't need to worry too much about air bubbles (within reason, of course). You can't see through the wood or liners, so there's no need for aesthetic perfection on that count. However, airbubbles will always weaken the strength of any resin, so you'll want to keep them to a minimum. To do so, what I usually do is put a plentiful line of epoxy right down the middle (isntead of slathering it all over). I then press the two materials together and work the epoxy from the middle out to the edges. That way, any air that was in there to start was likely at the edges, and will get pushed out, instead of trapped in.

    For the brass fill, what I did was grind some off of brass shim stock using a dremel grinding wheel (the orange ones, whichever those are). I then meticulously cleaned out every pore of the wood with an x-acto knife or pin. Once the pores were good and open, I poured the brass over the wood and pressed/packed it in with my finger or an eraser.

    After that I tried to wipe off the excess from the wood, however, in correspondence with Bill, he shared with me a better way. Instead of trying to wipe the excess from the wood, and likely removing brass lying in the pores as well, start with the first coat of CA now. After that dries, sand lightly so that the first coat - and any loose brass particles in it - are removed. When done, the surface should be free of excess brass, but the brass in the pores should still be sealed in there with CA.

  6. #6
    Plays with Fire C utz's Avatar
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    I have a few questions too, as I'm gearin' up to follow suit making a set of scales...

    Do you attach the liners to the scales prior to coating them on the outside?

    Also, I went to Woodcraft today and found "Rottenstone" or Truoil and it was a powder?! What exactly is it I'm looking for... Was this it? If so, how do you apply it?

    The guy at the shop recommended using parafin oil. But this was all to be applied after an initial protection was added to the wood already.

    I was confused, so I just bought the items I already had....

    C utz

  7. #7
    Senior Member garythepenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C utz
    I have a few questions too, as I'm gearin' up to follow suit making a set of scales...

    Do you attach the liners to the scales prior to coating them on the outside? Yes
    Also, I went to Woodcraft today and found "Rottenstone" or Truoil and it was a powder?! What exactly is it I'm looking for... Was this it? If so, how do you apply it?

    The guy at the shop recommended using parafin oil. But this was all to be applied after an initial protection was added to the wood already.
    Tru-oil I use is already a liquid.

    I was confused, so I just bought the items I already had....

    C utz
    Hope this helps.

    Gary

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    Loudmouth FiReSTaRT's Avatar
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    Ok final question...
    Should I also include a coat of epoxy on the side of the brass that will be showing or forget about that? The reason I'm asking is that CA disintegrates and unprotected brass corrodes. I want a win-win.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ToxIk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
    Ok final question...
    Should I also include a coat of epoxy on the side of the brass that will be showing or forget about that? The reason I'm asking is that CA disintegrates and unprotected brass corrodes. I want a win-win.
    Ideally, all exposed surfaces would be protected. Coating the outside rim of the brass would probably be most difficult. Also, you'd need to do it in such a way to minimize chipping/pealing the most, and, the outer edge is probably most prone to doing so.

  10. #10
    Hones & Honing randydance062449's Avatar
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    Try protecting the exposed brass liner with wax and be aware that the brass will scratch very easily while working on the scales. Thats why Bill and Joe use vulcanized rubber as the innermost material.
    Also, some epoxy's do not like metal and some don't like oily wood. I believe Bill uses T-88. I forget what Papa Bull (Robert Williams) uses. I have never asked Joe Chandler what he uses.

    Rottenstone - When you use Tru-oil several coats are necessary. Between each coat you need to gently use 0000 steelwool or parrafin oil mixed with some rottenstone. This removes the high points and gently abrades the surface which prepares it for the next coat of Tru-Oil to adhere to.

    One guy I met made/restored gun stocks. He used twelve coats of Tru-oil. He let each coat dry for not more than 18 hours. Between each coat he would gently rub it with 0000 steel wool. After the final coat he finished by rubbing the gunstock with parafin oil and rottenstone. The result is a fiish that looks and feels like glass. It is called a "Piano" finish.
    I have used this technique on furniture and it works very well.
    You can substitute the parafin oil/rottenstone for the steel wool if you wish.
    Randolph Tuttle, a SRP Mentor for residents of Minnesota & western Wisconsin

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