Thread: What I'm learning...and amateur's restoration

...and came across an article about collecting that said there are people who grind out the name on a blade to re-stamp it with the markings of one more valuable.

All that sounds plausible unless you actually tried to cold-stamp hardened steel. It doesn't work very well.

Most stamping is done before the blade is heat treated. The only way to do it afterwords would be to remove the blade, heat it so it loses the temper in the area of stamp location and then cold-stamp it. Then you have to refinish the area of the blade you just turned a different color if you used a torch. You would not be able to heat treat the blade again without warping the edge, so if any loss of integrity from the heating process is now permanent. This fact could be hidden by buffing and sanding the entire blade.

You would also have to have the counterfeit stamp. Not so easy to find those at the local hardware store, either. Tooling companies would not make such a stamp for you because they could be sued out of business if they got caught making it for you.

Etching is a different story. This is done after the heat treating process. Counterfeit logos are quite possible if they are etched. I can't remember if Winchester was stamped or etched as I sold the last two of them that I had.

That guy's article was mostly plagiarized from a few different sources. One of them is P. Krumholz's book on straight razors. 3/4 of what he said I'm pretty sure I have seen in other publications that certainly did not have his name attached to it. Regardless of the source, he may have had good intentions, but the information is misleading.

And, as good as my intentions are, I can't tell you why Chris' tang looks to have a ghost stamping behind the arrow. I doubt it is a counterfeit, though.

Chris... rubber cement should hold them together. When you separate them, just roll up the rubber cement like a booger. Eating it or throwing it away could be your choice. Vlad's suggestion definitely works. But, do either one of them. Don't make the scales separately. They won't come out as good. The good thing is that the scales are bowed symetrically.

You are doing just fine with them. Keep us posted.

Originally Posted by Sweeney Todd

C Utz, it's funny you should ask that about the possibility of a re-stamped name. I was trying to research a razor today and came across an article about collecting that said there are people who grind out the name on a blade to re-stamp it with the markings of one more valuable (original article here: http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/...08/abu0149/s07 )

Can't say for sure, of course, is this is what's going on with your W&B but I thought I'd throw it out just the same. I'm sure the wiser among us have better explanations.

-S

I don't know if it 'was' double stamped, but it does look as though it might have been. I'm thinking that it originally had the W&B sheffileld info on the front, and they placed it on the back, or it was double stamped, and they removed the front to add the "Special" brand. I do not find that Wade & Butcher stamped the back of the tang too often....especially the old of a W&B.

Who knows........either way, curious to say the least.

C utz

Originally Posted by urleebird

Chris... rubber cement should hold them together. When you separate them, just roll up the rubber cement like a booger. Eating it or throwing it away could be your choice. Vlad's suggestion definitely works. But, do either one of them. Don't make the scales separately. They won't come out as good. The good thing is that the scales are bowed symetrically.

You are doing just fine with them. Keep us posted.

WELL, it seems I threw away or used up the damn rubber cement long ago. SO, I had to improvise. I took scotch tape and rolled it to double-sided. Placed rolls of that up the inside of the scales...then I used my favorite clamps (paper clamps) and held the scales together while I sanded the two down. I have posted an 'earlier' image as now I am starting to round off the edges and thin out the scales a little. I really like the paper thin brass highlight between the wood and blue.

This coming weekend I hope to be putting some sort of finish on the wood, and figure out what the hell to use as an end spacer! OH, and the ever so fun, sand, sand, sand, sanding metal to a mirror polish. Since I read that blueing also stops the continuation of rust, I might blue the blade around 400 or 1500 grit, to get down in the 'deep' pitting that I can not get to. Then sand to 2000+ to a mirror finish removing the blueing from the blade, but keeping the pits covered....

Since I have limited time to work on this (basically weekends, and a half hour or so hear and there, the work is slow goin')

C utz

CALAMITY!

Uh-OH!

SOoooooooooooo.
This might be a silly question to ask now, but, what do you guys suggest for gluing wood to brass that is STRONGER than T-88?

Any suggestions?!

C utz

Chris,

CA. I used the thicker variety that takes a bit longer to set. Make sure you separate the liners or you will glue them together with CA.

You will need to be careful about separating the liners without pulling off the second one or damaging the one detached from the wood. Aligning them might still be tricky because the CA may catch in places while you are still trying to line them up.

I gooped the CA on the epoxy which was firmly attached to the wood. Then pressed the liner over the CA with a piece of wood. You may want to wrap the wood in plastic too to prevent it from sticking to the liner.

You can try working on a thick polyethylene sheet. Freezer bags are made of it and most plastic shopping bags. Otherwise the run off CA can glue the scales to the workbench. Never happened to me.

Two questions...
1) I have 2 types of epoxy. One that sets in 5-8min and one that takes about an hour to set. Will they do the trick?
2) Would wax paper be a good liner for the clamps?

Firestart, what glues do you have?

WELL, here is what I did.....
I got out the other glue I have on the shelf, "Gorilla Glue".
I was able to easily separate the scales from the liners (honestly, the scales look fine with out the liners, but not as 'fancy'...so, I'm going to give this glueing another whirl). I roughed up the surfaces with sandpaper, and was about to use the glue when...

I saw Bill's avatar (lookin' over those glasses) and recalled his blog and the distain for "Gorilla Glue". Then I could almost hear him saying 'don't do it'. OK, I have an imagination, but I also chalk that 'voice' up to instinct, so I listened. I put the Gorilla Glue aside and grabbed the T-88. I read the box again. This is suppose to be the cats pajamas for glue. It glues everything....wood, steel.....OK, fine. I re-applied the T-88, and since the trusty dumbells worked so good on the horn bending/straightening, they were hired for this job.

I used paper clips to hold the wood to the liner for the first 30min-hour, then I rubbed off the excess glue on the outside surfaces with white vingar, placed the scales on a paper towel (I figure if it get's glued to the scales it'll be easy enough to get off), covered them again with a papertowel, placed a metal sheet over the scales (more of a metal lid to a metal box, but you get the idea) and then placed 2 dumbells on end on the metal cover. SO there is 70lbs of weight sitting on the scales as they dry, and I'm not going to look at them till Friday. I want them to sit and think about what they are suppose to be doing, and have a good long time to get the job done.

Till then, I have these damn blades to clean up! Sand, sand, sand, sand........

As always, advice and criticism is MORE then welcome. Whether I'll listen to it, well even I can't answer that one!

C utz

Good... send the Gorilla glue to somebody you don't like. That stuff is worthless. Those simple paper clamps should have been plenty to hold everything together until the epoxy cured. You did let it cure, no?

The T-88 5-minute stuff is not as good as the 24-hour epoxy, but should have worked on what you had, if that is what you used. I am baffled regarding the separation of those materials. That is a pretty intense warp going on there.

I also don't know how the scales were so easily separated after they were glued together the first time. I have never had that happen to me. When you mix the 1:1 ratio of hardener to epoxy, it has to be really mixed good before you put it on. Otherwise, the epoxy will never set.

And if it were mixed good, I don't see it separating unless the surface of the brass was not cleaned with MEK or Acetone first. (It's supposed to be cleaned? ... yup!) Some 220 grit paper would have worked also, and then wipe the surface to be glued with alcohol. Do the same thing with the wood, also. Only alcohol on the wood, though. Make sure it has evaporated before you apply any adhesives...

Originally Posted by urleebird

....unless the surface of the brass was not cleaned with MEK or Acetone first. (It's supposed to be cleaned? ... yup!) Some 220 grit paper would have worked also, and then wipe the surface to be glued with alcohol. Do the same thing with the wood, also. Only alcohol on the wood, though. Make sure it has evaporated before you apply any adhesives...

SO, when these separate the next time, I'll know to clean them with alcohol first...

Hm. That one must have slipped my mind.....

(sigh)

Anyway, it's the 24hr curing 'stuff'. The two surfaces were scored up with sand paper, BUT, I'm guessing that perhaps it was the lack of cleaning that might have added to the separation.....

We'll see

Thanks for the 'reminder'.........

C utz

Try this stuff:

http://68.72.74.113/PRODUCTS/330.htm

This is the hell glue. I've seen scales glued to liners and either the metal or the wood breaks before any of the glue comes apart. It smells funny when curing. The bearing industry uses it to keep their parts together.