Thread: Slurry Dulling

Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

And shows that jnat slorry does not break down? And more than 5 passes on the strop does nothing?

Runs and ducks!

There is no way to show that the slurry of a J-Nat does not break down unless one can measure the thickness of the slurry platelets. That is not possible.

Originally Posted by mainaman

There is no way to show that the slurry of a J-Nat does not break down unless one can measure the thickness of the slurry platelets. That is not possible.

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...ry-break-down/

I honestly wouldnt know... this serms to indicate otherwise... it cannot be called exhaustive however...

Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...ry-break-down/

I honestly wouldnt know... this serms to indicate otherwise... it cannot be called exhaustive however...

No it does not. The experiment is not defined clearly and the results are not all inclusive. The guy did not measure the thickness of the slurry plates.
The only way one can prove whether the slurry breaks or doesn't is to measure the thickness of the slurry particles and do statistical analysis, that measurement is impossible with an SEM.

Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...ry-break-down/

I honestly wouldnt know... this serms to indicate otherwise... it cannot be called exhaustive however...

Although this is not definitive proof one way or another, after looking at the data/pictures, it is not easily dismissed either. This is very interesting to say the least.

Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...ry-break-down/

I honestly wouldnt know... this serms to indicate otherwise... it cannot be called exhaustive however...

Ya know I would be much more inclined to add veracity to that entire study if the actual honing had been done by somebody that knew a thing or two about SR honing..

The pics are great.... the hand behind the razor was a mere beginner,,, sorry but that is the hard truth

P.s. the post does show that the binding agent or clay particles do break down, but that the sillicates do not... so the possibility exists that the way the slurry abrades might be changed due to the softer non abrasive particles...

Which in this greatly nuanced world of sharpening... m8ght be a big deal...

What do you mean by slurry particles?

Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

What do you mean by slurry particles?

What constitutes the slurry of a J-Nat? The answer is slurry particles, or plates. If you want to call them something else that is fine, the name is irrelevant. What matters is how are they composed and the pictures show they have layered structure, like puff pastry. That would indicate that break down happens through shearing predominantly but the way to prove or disprove is to measure the thickness of the plates and that has not been done to my knowledge. I have worked with an SEM quite a bit and am sure that thickness measurement can't be done with that instrument.
In Japan it is accepted fact that the slurry breaks down, since those guys have used those types of stones for thousands of years, I think they probably know what happens to the slurry.

Well the abrasive particles are round hard sillicates the binding agents are what i believe to be smectic clays which are fine plates... those fine plates do break down and change as per that post... it is the hard sillicates that don't. The clays - which due to their polar nature and very fine texture may well be somewhere between suspended and dissolved in the water... are possibly not the particles that abrade, but along with water will become the carrier medium for the sillicates... which seems to agree with what you are saying. The post does measure particles not exhaustively to come to these conclusions...

I may be missing your point though... please enlighten me if i do?

Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

Well the abrasive particles are round hard sillicates the binding agents are what i believe to be smectic clays which are fine plates... those fine plates do break down and change as per that post... it is the hard sillicates that don't. The clays - which due to their polar nature and very fine texture may well be somewhere between suspended and dissolved in the water... are possibly not the particles that abrade, but along with water will become the carrier medium for the sillicates... which seems to agree with what you are saying. The post does measure particles not exhaustively to come to these conclusions...

I may be missing your point though... please enlighten me if i do?

I was talking about how the break down happens IMO, not what abrades. In the end it is all theory-crafting since we have no way of measuring any of the effects to draw positive conclusions. Those stones work though.