Thread: My GDLP has issues...........................

Atoma? mine is on a solid AL sub-base with a thin diamond plate attached to it-the plate with diamonds attaced is steel though looks plated.
I don't have a compact, only heard from those who've used them. years sounds ok. the diashrp has lasted years.

Keep us updated Chris

Just a thought, but wouldn't "putting your shoulders" into lapping a hone deform the lapping plate?

I mean, if you want to talk about absolute flatness, you have to take into acount how much force is being applied at various points on the plate.

I'd be interested to see who's stones were flatter; Harrelson's or the guys here at SRP.

my memory is terrible. I thought this thread referred to stone flatness off the gdlp. Maybe there is another. Though it must be the flatness of the float glass substrate mentioned that stuck in my mind as being the flatness of stones from the gdlp
Anyway the measureing machine is pretty cool.

Japanese Woodworking Forums :: View topic - Shapton measuring system

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

I'm sorry, I just can't stand for this kind of nonsense. (No not yours Chris, Harrelsons!). How the h*ll can he claim that an "undetermined" as in unmeasured or verified surface flatness of a hand lapped hone will be much flatter than that of another hone which is guaranteed by the manufacturer not to *exceed* a .001 deviance in flatness?!?!?! First off, as Harrelson has up front admitted that the .5 is nothing more than the accuracy of the substrate which has (according to his own statement) absolutely nothing to do with the surface of multiple layers of diamonds or rather a slurry of diamonds in some sort of binder and who afterwards makes no claims to have measured or made any guarantee of the accuracy of it's surface after manufacturing or for that matter after hand lapping yet there he is saying he knows (nudge nudge.... wink wink) it has to be way more accurate. After all, he's charging you nearly 6 times the cost of a DMT so it has to be better, right?!?!

Nope, I don't buy into his statements, or the "substrate" is flatter, therefore the surface must be as well. If they are laying down multiple layers of diamonds on top of this substrate, they would have to re-surface the hone in order to know what level of flatness it has. It's like pouring concrete, the substrate can be made very flat but unless you tightly control the pouring and leveling of the final top coat, the substrate accuracy is lost.

Now, lapping by hand has been done for many, many years and it is well known that it can be done quite accurately but it does require skill and must be verified by some method of measurement if you want to make some form of claim about it. Lapping or surface scraping is often measured by using a layout dye and a surface plate of known accuracy. Strangely enough, those folks skilled in lapping and or scraping surfaces to make them dead flat have to frequently check them on the surface plate to gauge their progress and help decide when they have reached a given measure of accuracy. It does not appear that Harrelson is taking any of these steps and therefore his claims are meaningless to me.

Now, if you take Harrelsons description of how he uses the DGLP to flatten hones, it becomes quite apparent that he's shooting for "good enough" and not absolute flatness and of course he is correct. This is not nano technology, a thou here or a thou there is not going to make one damn bit of difference and so sloppy, heavy handed lapping is acceptable... h*ll, it's even encouraged as after all, the more you lean on the flattening hone, the faster you'll be back to buy another hone!

Shapton Glass hones are a great product, I'm super happy with mine but Shapton can keep their over priced diamond lapping plates. The best lapping system they have is really the cast iron plate/powdered abrasive system. It's tried and true, been used for decades and is known to remain accurate to any reasonable degree if used correctly.

Regards

Kaptain "I stands all I can stands but I can't stands no more." Zero

I knew you'd be all over this, Christian. I just knew it!

Chris L

Chris,

You knew that would be like waving a red blanket in front of a bull, didn't you?

What is not funny is that you are the unfortunate one to have gotten a defective diamond plate. I would not accept a Harrelson lapped plate as a solution. DMT hones run for years and years on the same single layer of diamonds they started out with... if you have to strip a layer off after only 6 months, how long is the next layer going to last?!?!?! Oh.... and just because I'd like to know.... why does Harrelson have 10 or more GDLP's soaking in water in his shop?!?!?! Sheesh, you'd think one would be enough!

I don't know what to think of the other iron/diamond based reference plate, it would seem pretty handy for tool sharpening but for razor use it seems to be a glorified DMT with a second side that is useless to you, and the fact that they are already offering re-manufactured ones doesn't really impress me that much either. Those plates have only been around for a couple of years..... Howards DMT has been used for.... what did he say again, 6 years or more?!?!

I hope things work out to your satisfaction. As for me... it's settled, a DMT shall suffice though I might be tempted to try one of those Atoma plates I've seen.... just for fun.

Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

... Strangely enough, those folks skilled in lapping and or scraping surfaces to make them dead flat have to frequently check them on the surface plate to gauge their progress and help decide when they have reached a given measure of accuracy....

Sounds like someone has spent some time lapping/scraping steel! Are you a machinist or a die maker?

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Chris,

You knew that would be like waving a red blanket in front of a bull, didn't you?

What is not funny is that you are the unfortunate one to have gotten a defective diamond plate. I would not accept a Harrelson lapped plate as a solution. DMT hones run for years and years on the same single layer of diamonds they started out with... if you have to strip a layer off after only 6 months, how long is the next layer going to last?!?!?! Oh.... and just because I'd like to know.... why does Harrelson have 10 or more GDLP's soaking in water in his shop?!?!?! Sheesh, you'd think one would be enough!

I don't know what to think of the other iron/diamond based reference plate, it would seem pretty handy for tool sharpening but for razor use it seems to be a glorified DMT with a second side that is useless to you, and the fact that they are already offering re-manufactured ones doesn't really impress me that much either. Those plates have only been around for a couple of years..... Howards DMT has been used for.... what did he say again, 6 years or more?!?!

I hope things work out to your satisfaction. As for me... it's settled, a DMT shall suffice though I might be tempted to try one of those Atoma plates I've seen.... just for fun.

Regards

Christian

When I spoke to Harrelson before buying the GDLP I inquired about the re-manufactured DRP. It was close in price to the glass plate. Harrelson told me that you have to buy the full price iron DRP and that when it needs to be replaced they will remove the serial # from your worn out and returned plate and put it on a re-manufactured plate. So unless sharpening planes is your purpose it is not a very cost effective alternative.

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

When I spoke to Harrelson before buying the GDLP I inquired about the re-manufactured DRP. It was close in price to the glass plate. Harrelson told me that you have to buy the full price iron DRP and that when it needs to be replaced they will remove the serial # from your worn out and returned plate and put it on a re-manufactured plate. So unless sharpening planes is your purpose it is not a very cost effective alternative.

Correct. The remanufactured DRLP price at $300 something is the trade in cost. You have to have purchased a new DRLP first for $480 to then buy another one at the $300 price.

Well, I'll see how this comes out. If I get it back lapped, I'll think seriously about selling it on Ebay with full disclosure about how it was inspected and lapped by the U.S. distributor and just see what it brings. I've thought about the IF I get a new replacement scenario as well. I really want you guys with GDLPs give me feedback along the way when you're using yours. Part of me thinks even if I DID get a new replacement, I'd be tempted to sell that one off and buy the whole DMT line for the same cost as the GDLP. I'd be concerned that the new replacement would end up doing the same thing. So, watch your GDLPs closely and please report any change in performance. Better yet, if any GDLP owners have ways of taking magnified photos, all the better. Let's look at your diamonds up close.

Chris L

Chris, if I were in your shoes, wingtips I assume I would wait and see what Harrelson sends back. If it gets your stones accurately flat what the heck, keep it. If it doesn't I would demand a replacement. I use a Starrett 385-12 straight edge to check my stones before I begin a new honing session. Overkill maybe but it makes me feel better. I would use something along those lines to make sure that the GDLP is working as it should.

Thanks, Jimmy. I don't want to overreact, so your words are accepted well.

Chris L