Thread: My GDLP has issues...........................

Originally Posted by joke1176

Sounds like someone has spent some time lapping/scraping steel! Are you a machinist or a die maker?

These days most people think I'm just old and stupid!


Actually, I gave up the life of a mechanic/marine mechanic/machinist/gunsmith and agricultural-diesel mechanic quite a few years ago, 25 years to be exact based on the fact that they just handed me my 25 year gold watch at Canada Post. I got my training in Norway back in the 70s the old fashioned way. I remember it like yesterday when I entered the 1st year machine and mechanics school. They handed me 6 files, a hammer, a cold chisel and a hacksaw and assigned me a vice and a drawer in a bench and I (and everyone else of course) were duly informed that if we needed anything else, we would have to make it. A years worth of blisters later, I had a pretty good idea of how to work with steel. Year two brought the next nightmare... the blacksmith shop! Once we demonstrated that we weren't going to quit just because it was tough slogging, we got to enter the machine shop and so the story goes. And yes, the granite surface plate, copper sulphate solution and a scraper were my friends back then!

I think the most fun I ever had was in the gun shop. Gunsmithing is very rewarding and lets you use every little trick you ever learned and teaches you quite a few more. Too bad gun control got out of hand here, it's pretty tough to make a living at it now.

ChrisL,

Yes, don't go off the deep end yet, wait and see what they do for you. Leave the ranting and raving to a pro like me... I would have been in orbit around the earth by now!

Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by Chris L

I'd be tempted to sell that one off and buy the whole DMT line for the same cost as the GDLP.

Chris L

Now your talkin'!

Don't get me wrong I've been admiring the entire Shapton line for a while now, with an itchy trigger finger pointed at the 16k GS, but if a certain product is overpriced for it's performance, there's no shame in seeking out more reasonable options.

I hope things do get straightened out in your favor though.

You know, I completely agree with Chrisian's first rant. All of this information should be CLEARLY labeled and offered by Shapton on both their website and any literature/boxes that might have this sort of thing. I also cannot even begin to believe some of Harrelson's claims about flatness after hand lapping as compared to DMTs. Usually if I deal with a situation like this it is enough to stop me from using the product ever again- especially if the service I get in return isn't up to par. My first was defective, yes, but they stood by their product and then some as proven by the customer service that I received.

One last thing that is almost off topic at this point: Anyone know exactly what part of a DMT is guaranteed to .001 flatness? I'm guessing it's the same thing since diamonds obviously are shaped differently. Then again, I think when it comes down to sharpening- this gets to be a little nitpicky. We have all seen those dished barber hones. I'm sure that many sharp razors were kept that way on those stones. How flat are they?

Mr. Stanley indicated to me via e-mail that the DGLP was suitable for lapping other
stones, as long as they were higher than 1000 grit. Since I had heard issues with
diamonds being dislodged from the DMT-Cs nickel substrate when lapping extreme-
ly hard stones such as Spyderco or some barber hones, I decided to stick to lapping
the Glasstones and naturals (Nakayama currently) only.

My experience with the DGLP has been excellent so far, it had none of the issues
(raised diamonds, long break-in period) that my DMT-Cs have had out-of-the-box.
It is significantly larger and has recessed areas to catch the slurry, which is a great
feature to have for a dedicated lapping plate. Quite a bit easier to hold without a
holder than the DMT as well.

All that being said, $289 is... well... expensive

Chris, I hope you get back on track with a working DGLP.

Regards,

- Scott

Originally Posted by sebell

Mr. Stanley indicated to me via e-mail that the DGLP was suitable for lapping other
stones, as long as they were higher than 1000 grit. Since I had heard issues with
diamonds being dislodged from the DMT-Cs nickel substrate when lapping extreme-
ly hard stones such as Spyderco or some barber hones, I decided to stick to lapping
the Glasstones and naturals (Nakayama currently) only.

My experience with the DGLP has been excellent so far, it had none of the issues
(raised diamonds, long break-in period) that my DMT-Cs have had out-of-the-box.
It is significantly larger and has recessed areas to catch the slurry, which is a great
feature to have for a dedicated lapping plate. Quite a bit easier to hold without a
holder than the DMT as well.

All that being said, $289 is... well... expensive

Chris, I hope you get back on track with a working DGLP.

Regards,

- Scott

Thanks Scott. I haven't heard back from Harrelson, but he was going to look at my GDLP just last weekend so I'll give it some time. I do have quite a few stones to lap though, dang it, so I hope it's quick!

Chris L

great thread, very informative reading, i think that for the price tag on the lapping plate maybe shapton should have included the soaking in water trick with the product, as you could very well have a substancial buildup of ceramic material on your plate, i wonder if the $19 lapping disk would work on the shapton hones as well or better than the almost $300 big brother, my 2000 doesnt impress me as a hone, always have to clean it with a 600 grit diamond hone, it gets dirty after 1 razor, and i dont think it will last very long at that rate, spyderco hones are dishwasher safe as well as autoclave safe go figure, i purchased the 2000 for bevel setting and it takes way too long to do that, im getting a 1200 dmt tomorrow for that

Always having to clean a hone means it's doing it's job well.... hones that go for a long time between cleanings aren't removing much in the way of steel. That said, the 2k is probably a bit on the fine side for hogging off metal at the beginning of a restore. My coarsest Shapton is the 2k and like you I find it a bit slow for rough work and plan to get the 500 and 1k to round out my set. I already have the 1200 grit DMT.... it shall remain in the woodworking shop as I don't care for it as a razor hone. Many gents get good results using it, it's just I find the feel rather sticky and leaves something to be desired in the feedback.

On another note, I was reading a bit about the Trend diamond hones and they are claiming a max 0.0005" +/- deviation from dead flat for the hone as manufactured. Then again, they recommend using only their proprietary honing fluid to avoid rust/corrosion. As Trend will have a rep at the local woodworking show in September, I shall "pump" the guy/gal for more info and their view on using it for flattening hones. I should point out that the Trend 325 grit plate sells for around $150 locally. For that price I can almost get 3 DMT's shipped to Canada from the US.

Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Always having to clean a hone means it's doing it's job well.... hones that go for a long time between cleanings aren't removing much in the way of steel. That said, the 2k is probably a bit on the fine side for hogging off metal at the beginning of a restore. My coarsest Shapton is the 2k and like you I find it a bit slow for rough work and plan to get the 500 and 1k to round out my set. I already have the 1200 grit DMT.... it shall remain in the woodworking shop as I don't care for it as a razor hone. Many gents get good results using it, it's just I find the feel rather sticky and leaves something to be desired in the feedback.

On another note, I was reading a bit about the Trend diamond hones and they are claiming a max 0.0005" +/- deviation from dead flat for the hone as manufactured. Then again, they recommend using only their proprietary honing fluid to avoid rust/corrosion. As Trend will have a rep at the local woodworking show in September, I shall "pump" the guy/gal for more info and their view on using it for flattening hones. I should point out that the Trend 325 grit plate sells for around $150 locally. For that price I can almost get 3 DMT's shipped to Canada from the US.

Regards

Christian

thank you for the feedback on the 2k i think ill order the 1k and the 500 and go from there, i was using what i had before to set bevels a 600 grit diamond 2 by 6 and i found it sticky as well with no feedback at all

The Shaptons are truly race horses in that they're highly engineered and developed to be used as a system. The hones, the stone holder, the pond, the GDLP are the elements of the system. I've been using them for a couple of months now and I really like them. I do use the whole system though and that includes the stone holder and the pond. I use the GDLP frequently to remove razor metal particles from the surface of the Shapton hones and also to keep them flat.

I just re-read the instructions that come with the GDLP and they say "This plate has been designed to specifically to (sic) flatten Shapton ceramic sharpening stones." "The grooves in the plate are very wide and carefully designed to flatten Shapton ceramic stones". It goes on to say that the plate is not designed to flatten steel and that will void the warranty.

The directions do not, as Chris says, specifically say not to lap other stones. Given that, I don't believe the belgians, thuringians, or eshers would pose a problem that would result in the mechanical removal of the diamonds from the nickel plating on the DGLP. I am concerned about the barber hones though. Those are tough stones. Tough enough to ruin a GDLP? Don't know. Could happen. I have seen DMTs ruined in the same manner described by Chris by someone trying to flatten carborundum and hard Arkansas stones.

Is it possible that Chris's GDLP is defective? Yes, that is a possibility. Any tool, no matter how expensive, has to be quality checked during manufacture and it's during that process that stones that don't meet specs should be discarded. Do any get through? Yes, it happens. Is that what happened here? Don't know.

Here's what I do recommend. Use the Shaptons as a system and only use the GDLP with Shapton hones between 500 and 30000 mesh. Use the whole surface of the GDLP as you would any lapping plate in order to keep it flat as long as possible and avoid dishing. Use plenty of water to keep these hones clean. That's why they have the pond. It keeps the swarf water contained and gives you the freedom to use plenty of water without worrying about it getting everywhere. Handle the hones gingerly as they're made of glass. In fact, I have a new rubber mat in my work area specifically so I don't break a Shapton if I drop it.

The Shaptons will enable a honer to achieve amazing edges. They are race horses though and require special care and attention. You wouldn't use a race horse to plow a field and I wouldn't use a Shapton in any way not recommended by Shapton.

Let's see what Harrelson has to say about Chris's DGLP. He is a honemeister with long and diverse honing experience and he has my respect.

I had that conversation with DMT's head of research. The whole 24 sq. in. of an 8x3 continuous coarse diamond DMT is flat to .001. In general, that's how flatness specifications work. I have 30 or so surface plates that range from 4"x4" up through 6' x 4'. I have round ones, square ones, rectangular ones, single ledged ones and double ledged ones, grade A, B, and toolroom ones. They all have a plate or sticker on them that records the NIST measurement of their flatness, the date it was measured, who measured it, and somewhere even the temperature and humidity during the measuring process. They're all guaranteed to be flat across the whole surface. That's the only way to build things to spec. It's why jet engines spin with so little runout and it's why we can put a machine like the International Space Station in orbit.