Thread: ONE COTICULE HONING

Bart,
I think you single handily increased prices of coticules with this study

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Bart,
I think you single handily increased prices of coticules with this study

I'm glad I bought one already!

Originally Posted by pjrage

Bart, have you ever tried this method on a delicate razor that you didn't want to damage the spine of, such that you used a layer of tape when setting the initial bevel, and then two layers for the second bevel? I assume it would work the same, but I was curious if you've tried it.

Bart mentioned doing this a few pages back and he said that it works the same. 0-1 layer of tape on step 1 to 4 is the same as 1-2 layers of tape on the same steps.

I honed my 7/8 Joseph Rodgers wedge with this method last night and the shave was amazing this morning. Setting the bevel on the wedge only took a half hour.

let me start by saying that I have tried my best to maintain the core of Bart's method (one stone, repeatable results), since "honing what I own" hasnt come easy, and I got my first decent results with Bart's old method, I was really excited by his new one, and it should be noted that when it comes to razors, I am very much in the rookie honing class.

I have tried this method on 7 identical razors, a 7 day set of sheffield steel branded "Thornhill". In the process I used 4 different coticules, to see if the hardness and cutting ability of individual stones made a difference (and also to see which coticule worked better), I started with four razors, saving the other three to be tried on the stone that gave me the greatest success, and thereby find repeatable results.



from left to right, I have a 5" pink, a 6" yellow, a 7.5" yellow.green, and an 8" yellow/green/white/purple

to try to be as exact as i could, I altered the number of strokes based on the size of the stone, with the 6" being my baseline, 30 strokes on the 6" became 23 strokes on the 8", and 36 on the 5", you get the idea

the "pink & yellow" were by far the fastest cutters, with their slurry's getting grey rather quickly during the bevel setting process, the other two took many more strokes to set the bevels and cut the arm hair, but looking under my RS 60X, it looked like the "greenies" polished much quicker ? again, i am just learning, so there could be many flaws in my thinking, but.... I was able to get all four razors shave ready. I could tell their were differences, so that told me I need to go back to the stones on one of them, but I then took my other 3 razors, only using the 6" and I was amazed ! Thanks to Bart's new method I now have a 7 day set of Shave ready blades

now I will qualify "shave ready", I got a very comfortable and smooth shave, (I will point out that it wasnt a "scary" sharp,it was like a razor I received from a premier Honemiester, but "after" I shaved with it a couple of times) but in the end all 7 razors gave a great shave, so for me, it truly did the job, and Barts method can be reproduced, even by a hone challeged guy like me.


Thanks again Bart

Originally Posted by currentman

now I will qualify "shave ready", I got a very comfortable and smooth shave, (I will point out that it wasnt a "scary" sharp,it was like a razor I received from a premier Honemiester, but "after" I shaved with it a couple of times) but in the end all 7 razors gave a great shave, so for me, it truly did the job, and Barts method can be reproduced, even by a hone challeged guy like me.


Thanks again Bart

Thanks for a very interesting post. IMO a razor can be too sharp for a comfortable shave. What I think is happening is that the honemeisters (I'm not one, I just hone my own razors) are honing "defensively". What I mean by that is they are usually honing razors for newbies who also have other issues with preparation and technique. The honemeister has to provide the very sharpest possible razor to rule out the razor itself as the cause of any problems. I shaved for a long time off of a barbers hone and now a coticule. I think the fact that I've developed good prep and technique (angles, light touch) means that I don't need the razor to be quite as sharp.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Just a quik question does any one on the forum actualy shave of the yellow coticule with out the double bevel and actualy get a good shave. I no bart has said some of his best shavers have been straight of coticule but the results are a bit inconsistant. Untill i realized my slurry was to heavy i could'nt get a good shave atall once i got my slurry right and slowly weened it down and then finished with water i can say i can get a razor shave ready. because i had a bad experiance with slurry at first it put me off the coticule but now i understand it better i get the results. Is there any one who just owns one yellow and finds it does all they need?

I have honed many razors with the blue with slurry followed by the yellow with water. One layer of tape and no secondary bevel and I have gotten outstanding shaves, close and smooth. YMMV. I have frequently followed the yellow with an Escher to refine the edge further but not always.

I'm going to buy a coticule and try this. I don't have any hones, or experience of honing, so I figure this is as good a way to start as any.

Now, to buy a coticule!

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Thanks for a very interesting post. IMO a razor can be too sharp for a comfortable shave. What I think is happening is that the honemeisters (I'm not one, I just hone my own razors) are honing "defensively". What I mean by that is they are usually honing razors for newbies who also have other issues with preparation and technique. The honemeister has to provide the very sharpest possible razor to rule out the razor itself as the cause of any problems. I shaved for a long time off of a barbers hone and now a coticule. I think the fact that I've developed good prep and technique (angles, light touch) means that I don't need the razor to be quite as sharp.

+ 1 I feel the same. Maybe I have hyper sensitive skin as I can't do more then 2 passes without irritation. I notice that if I use naturals I seem to get a smoother more forgiving edge than I do with the synthetics. I think it was Bart who mentioned doing a few laps on the yellow following a synthetic that has left a harsh edge. I found this works well and of course the chrom ox will smooth out such an edge as well.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Thanks for a very interesting post. IMO a razor can be too sharp for a comfortable shave. What I think is happening is that the honemeisters (I'm not one, I just hone my own razors) are honing "defensively". What I mean by that is they are usually honing razors for newbies who also have other issues with preparation and technique. The honemeister has to provide the very sharpest possible razor to rule out the razor itself as the cause of any problems. I shaved for a long time off of a barbers hone and now a coticule. I think the fact that I've developed good prep and technique (angles, light touch) means that I don't need the razor to be quite as sharp.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

+ 1 I feel the same. Maybe I have hyper sensitive skin as I can't do more then 2 passes without irritation. I notice that if I use naturals I seem to get a smoother more forgiving edge than I do with the synthetics. I think it was Bart who mentioned doing a few laps on the yellow following a synthetic that has left a harsh edge. I found this works well and of course the chrom ox will smooth out such an edge as well.

Slightly Sorry Bart


I do agree that as Honemiester's we produce the sharpest edge possible but that isn't just for Newbies that is on every single razor.... and using every single stone I have never ever even considered stopping before I reached that point...

I just can't wrap my brain around the thought that a slight duller razor can somehow be more comfortable/ smoother.....

Again any given razor can only attain a certain level of sharpness, after that point is reached then you are simply making the side of the bevel smoother...
Now I will give you the fact that if you're doing it wrong you can take the edge to far by flexing the edge and actually "overhoning it" instead of smoothing it...

Or by thinking that you can take a W&B wedge to the same level of sharpness as a Kinfolks extra full hollow (Just two of the last razors I happened to hone don't read anything into the brands)
two totally different types of steel and edges....

Now I will say this, if you have a "scary sharp" edge and you shave it the same way you shave your "slightly duller" blade Oooooo that would make for a bad feeling shave, but that would be your fault for using to much pressure for the edge that you have in your hand....

maybe I am just reading what you guys wrote wrong

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Slightly Sorry Bart


I just can't wrap my brain around the thought that a slight duller razor can somehow be more comfortable/ smoother.....

Glen, I don't know if you have any experience with DEs and various DE blades but just for comparison. A Gillette Swede and the Feather were the sharpest DE blades I experienced. The Swede was smoother than the Feather. I think this was a general consensus rather than my individual experience. The Derby was not as sharp as either of those blades but was more forgiving.

I once posted that I could get a razor sharper with my Shapton Pros than with a coticule or an Escher and a forum member responded that he didn't buy that a synthetic could make an edge sharper than a natural. I replied and said that I meant harsher.

Now I've got enough experience to go back to my original contention that , not knowing about anyone else, I can get a razor sharper with my Shapton pros than I can with a coticule. The resulting edge will be harsher to my skin than the edge off of the coticule.

Sort of like a Feather as opposed to a Derby DE. That is IME and not necessarily true for anyone else.