Thread: ONE COTICULE HONING

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

the double bevel is stronger
no ifs, ands, or buts
ask an engineer
I don't need a thread to tell me, and I don't intend to get into a ****ing match with anyone over what I know to be fact

I have been using them exclusively for a while now

ALSO

remember my thread about microchipping stainless?

that's right, double bevel is how I finished a edge from 4K -->Escher
try it with a single bevel if you have hours to waste
single bevels have now officially become a waste of my time

Excellent info, man, thanks. I certainly didn't mean to sound like I was getting into a ****ing match...I apologize...

Any chance I could get a link to your micro chipping stainless thread? I'm still struggling with stainless.

So when you do the double bevel... at what grit do you go from no tape to adding tape, and how many layers of tape do you use to do the second bevel?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm bored of my old honing technique, and love to experiment, as well as find better ways than mine.

Again, no intended at all, and I *really* appreciate your information.

Originally Posted by McWolf1969

The concept or application of a double bevel, on razors is a pretty interesting subject to me...could we start a new thread on that for feedback?
There are some comments i remember reading, from various people, but nothing brought together in a single thread.

I can start one, but didnt want to steal your subject Utopian.

Thanks,
Mac

Steal away. I'm so drugged up from my poison ivy exposure that I'm having a hard time typing or thinking. Maybe a moderator could pull these last few posts over to a new thread?

I also like the double bevel. I have a foreshortened version. It goes like this - when I get a shaveable edge with one piece of tape, I add another piece of tape, then 2 laps on the 8k, 5 or 6 laps on the escher or Naniwa 12k and strop. Seems to work most of the time....... Sometimes it seems necessary to polish on the Nakayama..... JERRY

Originally Posted by FloorPizza

The distance from the very edge to the shoulder of the bevel would be shorter than without the tape. I would think (but I have no proof) that this would cause the edge to be more fragile. It could also just be that I used a very soft blade for this experiment. One that I had not sharpened nor shaved with before, so it could just be that it is a particularly soft steel. I think I'll re-hone it without the tape, through a full course on the Shaptons and see if it still requires stropping during the shave.

Sheesh, the more I think about this the more I think you're right, Utopian... having the extra thickness further out should make it stronger..

On another note, I just got done honing three more blades on a different coticule using this method. This coticule is much faster than my other one, but usually doesn't finish out as well. For some reason, they do feel smoother than the finish I usually get from this stone. Could the extra angle added from the tape make a difference in the smoothness of the edge the stone gives?

The more I hone, the more questions I have, and the more I'm convinced I don't know anything... and I can prove it.

Utopian is right. That's why he is a mentor.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Utopian is right. That's why he is a mentor.

Nope!!!
Remember, mentor status means willingness to help, it has no bearing on being right--even if I am!

Originally Posted by Utopian

Nope!!!
Remember, mentor status means willingness to help, it has no bearing on being right--even if I am!

And it is much appreciated.

What you (and others) have said about the double bevel being stronger certainly does make sense.

Thanks for straightening me out on that, gents.

Originally Posted by Utopian

The actual edge would be more obtuse and therefore should stronger. The shoulder between the first and second bevel would seem to be the point that would wear faster relative to the full face of a normal bevel but I would think that such shoulder wear would not have a significant impact on the edge.
For those of you who use a double bevel, does your edge dull faster?

it does not seem to dull faster

let's keep in mind that the actually cutting edge is going to be the same relative thickness
even though there is a change in angles, I doubt this will have the same effect in increasing edge strength as is the case in knives (to the same degree I mean)


for me the advantage is increased speed of honing

THIS IS A THEORY
it seems that the shoulder of the secondary bevel would be the primary wear point when stropping on pastes and not the edge

WHY is the edge the primary wear point when stropping?
because hanging strops aren't flat and there is always some curving around the blade
it may be a minute level of wrapping but we ARE talking about razors edges here and microns matter (just try and deny THAT)

I suspect that a double bevel would be easier to reset by virtue of the secondary shoulder wearing and thereby negating (to a point) the need to reset the primary bevel every time
WHAT DID I JUST SAY?

I said the bevel should wear more than the edge (if we are in agreement that stropping is the major contributor to edge rounding)
and that there will be less need to push the bevel back to get to the edge
since the edge was somewhat protected by the second shoulder

I'll edit the original pic

new test


#1 shoulder of normal bevel or primary shoulder (PS)
#2 secondary shoulder (SS) of double bevel (DB)
#3 forgot what I was trying to say here, will clarify later
#4 where this single bevel would reset to in order to attain a new edge
#5 the removal of the SS created by DB through the process of stropping and use of pastes
#6 example of how the DB will be easier to reset due to erosion of the SS

how am I doing people?

Ok, so, if we run with that idea, would that mean that guys who touch up double beveled razors with tape might just be creating a single more obtuse bevel - or they will eventually.

As I see it, you might be better off establishing a single bevel and then a double bevel when double beveled razors get dull.

It would take very, very few strokes to remove a double beveled shoulder, and that would keep your hone wear in line with how it should be with a single bevel as well.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I barely feel the need to defend myself, but I asked if people found the double bevel to wear faster only because of FloorPizza's declaration that the DB was weaker. I didn't think that it was, but I was looking for clarification/discussion about his assertion.

no no Ron, I'm talking about the badge and not what you said

this has nothing to do with you
you clearly stated yourself not to be an expert on double bevels (is there such a thing even?)

no harm meant and I agree completely with what you are saying

I'm pointing at a problem with the badge