Thread: Microbevels with the Shapton 30000

I've tried the same thing with my Shapton 30K, but there is a theoretical problem with it. If you have a good edge and bevel off a 16K, then all you are really doing by adding tape in the transition to 30K is making the resulting edge less acute than what you started with. It might be very slightly more sturdy, but it is in principle not going to be as sharp as the edge was coming off 16K.

Originally Posted by boshane

Hope no one minds bumping an old thread

I received a 30k Shapton for Christmas (I was floored, honestly), and just gave 15-20 featherlight (too light?) strokes with tape to a SchoenBurg that was previously finished with a 16k shapton and CrOx.

This being my first try with the stone and my first attempt at microbevels I wasn't expecting much, and in fact I didn't really notice any difference at all in the edge, in fact it may have degraded slightly. I noticed Tom mentioned using less strokes and more, I didn't see an update on the 200+ stroke test, but I'm guessing that's more to the tune of what I needed-- I saw absolutely no change in slurry color, either my strokes were simply too light out of nervousness or there wasn't enough of them. This in contrast with the 16k which shows abrasion after only a few strokes.

I was going to try again later starting from the 8k and doing a proper go at it without CrOx this time of course, but was curious if there was any new insight into this technique, especially since recently "overhoning" has been called into question the scene may have changed.

First off, congrats to your gift from Santa.

When I started this thread I was still fairly new to straight shaving and in my mind sharper was better and the application of other sharpening ideas inspired me.(we all have to start somewhere)

When using the 30k it would be easy to overdo a good thing. You can actually feel the edge on the stone when it is ready and it does not take too many strokes.

I have never been sold on the micro/double/concave bevel ideas in fact IIRC even Tim Zowada said he stopped using them too...

I like the theories about them, but have just never found the differences where the rubber meet the road or where the steel meets the face... basically I have never figured out where the difference is between a 1 (or 2 or 3) layer of tape "double/micro bevel" and a 1 (or 2 or 3) layer of tape bevel.. we are after all talking micron measurements here... Also I have never experienced this "flutter" that was mentioned

On the Shapton 30k I have gone to basically only the 3-2-1 finish which is 3 edge leading 2 spine leading and 1 edge leading stroke to finish each razor, sometimes a 3-2-2
It seems to get me the smoothest edge off of that hone..
I use one layer of tape period

You however need to experiment with it and figure out what works best for you...

+1 to experimenting. I normally use less than 5 strokes on the Shapton Glass 30K edge leading and no tape unless honing a Damascus or where I am protecting the spine for some reason (ie, goldwash).

From a pure shaving perspective, I have not found any benefit from a double or micro bevel......................yet.

Have fun.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have never been sold on the micro/double/concave bevel ideas in fact IIRC even Tim Zowada said he stopped using them too...

I like the theories about them, but have just never found the differences where the rubber meet the road or where the steel meets the face... basically I have never figured out where the difference is between a 1 (or 2 or 3) layer of tape "double/micro bevel" and a 1 (or 2 or 3) layer of tape bevel.. we are after all talking micron measurements here... Also I have never experienced this "flutter" that was mentioned

On the Shapton 30k I have gone to basically only the 3-2-1 finish which is 3 edge leading 2 spine leading and 1 edge leading stroke to finish each razor, sometimes a 3-2-2
It seems to get me the smoothest edge off of that hone..
I use one layer of tape period

You however need to experiment with it and figure out what works best for you...

Originally Posted by Lynn

+1 to experimenting. I normally use less than 5 strokes on the Shapton Glass 30K edge leading and no tape unless honing a Damascus or where I am protecting the spine for some reason (ie, goldwash).

From a pure shaving perspective, I have not found any benefit from a double or micro bevel......................yet.

Have fun.

Curious, is there a perceptible difference in either sharpness or smoothness of the shave between a 16k edge and the 30k? I have the 16k, but have been contemplating the 30k. Thanks!

Regards,

Howard

Originally Posted by SirStropalot

Curious, is there a perceptible difference in either sharpness or smoothness of the shave between a 16k edge and the 30k? I have the 16k, but have been contemplating the 30k. Thanks!

Regards,

Howard

Oh boy the $300 question


This comes down to a personal preference, it is like asking if that J-nat, Coticule or Escher is that much better.. If you are even asking, you are already thinking about chasing the edge (an expensive hobby) so my opinion doesn't matter if you are hooked

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Oh boy the $300 question


This comes down to a personal preference, it is like asking if that J-nat, Coticule or Escher is that much better.. If you are even asking, you are already thinking about chasing the edge (an expensive hobby) so my opinion doesn't matter if you are hooked

No, not hooked, I've got too many stones already. I'm just curious as to how much is achieved with the 30 over the 16, especially with just 5 to 6 strokes. Easier to ask than drop $360 just to find out. It's not an "I've gotta have it!" situation.

Less than 1%, the sweet 16k is a rather nice finisher in it's own right...

If I were not an edge "Freak" I would have stopped with just a Norton 8k

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Glen, I actually watched Part 3 of your Shapton honing series (again) before giving it a go, but I forgot that you had tape on the spine during the whole process, rather than just with the 30k which is what I tried, and is probably why my initial results weren't so hot. (great videos by the way, my edges have improved significantly since I found them)

I'm going to go back today and do the entire process again with or without tape and see what happens.

Originally Posted by SirStropalot

No, not hooked, I've got too many stones already. I'm just curious as to how much is achieved with the 30 over the 16, especially with just 5 to 6 strokes. Easier to ask than drop $360 just to find out. It's not an "I've gotta have it!" situation.

If you want to try one, take a short drive south to Grant, OK and see me...