Thread: Do I Need Another Nakayama?

I absolutely agree Kevin. The harder the stone the better for me. The trick is find one that is super hard and still has good abrasive power. Only then can you get the best edge possible, providing you have good skills. That is my attraction to the Jnats.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Your explanation is one reason I don't have one. I could just imagine buying a stone that would make all of my other lovelies superfluous. Besides that there is the question of whether I succeed in getting the ultimate Nakayama. Maybe I would spend $500 and be left feeling unsure if there wasn't a better one. Then I would buy another and if I liked it more I wouldn't like the initial stone. Then I would again wonder if there wasn't a better one to be had.


[I]Jimmy, always such common sense and look at the way you ended your quote above. HAD, JimmyHAD. I have seen your rocks buddy, if you and I were to live for one thousand years, how many tons of hones would we have. The little common sense that I have left tells me you are so right, but then that HAD thing.

[/I]You mention the Shapton 30k. Matter of fact you mention it frequently and your constantly talking about it finally got me off of my bum to finish four razors with my 30k pro and I must thank you for that. I could not imagine a smoother and keener edge. This rock has been sitting in the cabinet for months and I've not availed myself of it because I had other fish to fry. Now that I have drunk the kool aid I don't know if I will be able to leave it alone.

Thanking me makes me happy. It is nice to be appreciated and respected from man the likes of you Jimmy. Always so helpful, and done with humility and class. Maybe a smoother edge could not be had. and for sure we that stick with it get them over time get it but it can't be ignored though, if there are finishers out there that reach this level and they are smooth as silk while honeing....., well can't you see my attraction?


As far as a 'better' hone ..... the results I'm getting from the 30k remind me of something a friend told my thirty years ago,"If you can't be satisfied with what you've got, you'll never be satisfied with what you get."

Again with e common sense JimmyHAD. Just one more one hurt.

Originally Posted by kevint

For me the hardness of the stone is nearly as important as the abrasive size/

I have used some softer tomae that just don't quite get there even though they are very very fine. While a harder stones that dresses as a 12-20k will produce an excellent shave edge.

Many of the sources I've seen here in Japan say that the reason the hones from the Nakayama mine (and, indeed, all the Eastern Stones) are so highly regarded is that they tended to be the hardest.

Western stones (like the Maruo) are apparently just as fine, but don't quit reach the ultimate hardness.

There are always, of course, variations and exceptions.

I totally agree with what everyone has said here.

You do NEED it however.............

Lynn

Did you have the same experience from the very first time you used the hone, or initially it was better finisher?

Originally Posted by mainaman

Did you have the same experience from the very first time you used the hone, or initially it was better finisher?

For the record it is a good finisher but from the first time I used it, I was suprised to see the grit range it took my razor through. I originaly got it thinking it was going to replace the forementioned finisher and was pleasantly suprised at what it could do although I realized whether it was my lack of honing skills or the rock itself it is not the last rock in my progression. IME it is inbetween coticule and 30K. Actually more like my escher but wicked fast. So you see it is in good company but as Lynn said I NEED another.

You don't have right stone. You should never need any other stone after your Nakayama.
In your case your Nakayama is not fine enough. This doesn't mean it is not a good stone .
As much as i test Japanese stones i get more confuse. There are so many of them out there and they do act differently.
who guaranties you your next Nakayama will be the what you are looking for?So far i have seen only 1 seller which openly told me if you don't like the stone you will get your money back. gl.


By the way Escher's are exceptional stones. They will put the final edge but wont work afte 4k or 8k you need to go to at the last stage. at least after 12 k.
hope this helps

Your right in that I have never hankered for the 30. Usually the edge I shave with is a little shy of the best I've ever felt. I would like a quality escher-esque german hone. Those are impressive if you have handled many rocks.

have you taken that imperfect nakayama edge to the escher? Only my asagi has eclipsed that combo.

If you duplicate and get something too close to the action of the one you have you may get bummed, just like you dont need another 30 . (I'd like to duplicate some of my stones but only to be larger, but i have these because large cost too much).

I really didn't mean the harder the better. I hope that's not what I said . I want just a teeny bit of slurry to develop. So little that you just guess that there really is a little bit.

The stone I mentioned above was the best tool stone I have used. It comes alive for a plane iron. Now Maybe I should have washed it more to finish a razor on, because it was soft and slurrying. even though it was much finer than my new ohira suita, the o-s makes a better shave edge.

I bet we have all had those shaves that somehow went beyond our usual expectations; I have, so I know I have what I need.
I'm just not able to place all the pieces.

So I try not to think about getting a "better" or "finer" stone. But I do think about getting different ones.

@Kingfish:

I have a Nakayama that gives great edges. I recently discovered that using a Cr2O3 pasted strop after the Nakayama improves the edge. Not so much increased sharpness but smoothness. A smoother edge feels sharper, at least to me.

I suggest you try chromox. before spending a fortune on another Nakayama.

Originally Posted by Kingfish

I have a Nakayama that is a most incredible stone in that it can start out with a slurry and in short order take mid level honing duty in short order take the blade to shavable good edge. It can easily come off a 4000 grit or lower stone and we are not talking about a long time. (And no this was not a cheap Ebay stone) Still I find the need to refine more and I still get more comfort only after 30 Shapton. I know most of you Jnat guys never seem to long for finer stone after, and I wonder is it me and lack of honing skills or do I need a finer stone.

You don't say what type of stone your Nakayama is, Asagi ,Suita, Namito ??
Just as an example I wouldn't dream of taking a 4k edge to my Nak Asagi.
As a polisher it is a relatively fast stone but not that fast. I borrowed a Nak Suita from So that was that fast, in fact I'd bet it could jump from 2k but the edges were something akin to a Feather blade until I used my polisher. I have tried finer Asagis than mine. Verry hard. Like honing on glass but out of my price range, but I sure would like one. Don't think you're the only HAD guy out there Maybe you do need a nice slowish hard polisher or just use the 30k. It sounds great.
Just a question on the 30 k Shapton will it polish an edge as quick after 4k as your Nak ? If not your Nakayama stone doesn't sound like it's in a similar grit range.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

By the way Escher's are exceptional stones. They will put the final edge but wont work afte 4k or 8k you need to go to at the last stage. at least after 12 k.

You dont believe you can go from a Naniwa 8k to an Escher?