Thread: Do I Need Another Nakayama?

I have a Nakayama Maruichi and I use it right after I finish on the 12k Naniwa or 16k Shapton, depending on which set of stones I've used.

I wet the stone, and work up a medium slurry then do 25 X strokes. Then I dilute the slurry and do another 25 X strokes, then I wash all the slurry off the stone and do a final 25 strokes with just water. This seems to work very well for me, and gives me a very sharp but smooth edge.

I might increase the strokes to three lots of 30 or even 35 if the razor is a big wedge, or seems to be made of particularly hard steel. My Wacker seemed to respond better to more strokes, and I did three lots of 35 on that one.

They are great stones though, and put really killer edges on a razor!

That would be excellent!


R

Originally Posted by riooso

It is hard for the 0.1 film guys isn't it? On the one hand we want the super keen and highly polished razor but dislike the techniques that we had to develop to not cut ourselves. So, did you finally get the hang of the stone you had and, if so, what did you do? You obviously got something going since your beginning post.

Take Care,
Richard

I gave up on an idea is what happened and it is mostly your fault. I was trying very hard to build flawless edges and taking my hones to their limit. To a point at which stropping would not be needed or desired. If you remember, I was using a double bevel, so the actual grit if the final stone is ever so obvious looking at the edge under the microscope. As I was convinced for a while that the 30k was the finest of the fine, then you sent me the .1 micron film. God was that edge as close to perfection as I ever created but the shave lacked something.
As I told you I had purchased a very good quality Nakayama from a very respected vendor. I asked for the finest hardest stone, when I tried to add it to my progression, I was disappointed, and it was obvious that this stone was not going to work under the same principles as my synthetic progression. I reset the bevel of a good shaving Torrey plain Jane(DMT 1200, the more aggresive Nakayama I already had, then the new Asagi). Stropped the crap out of the micro(no micro bevel or tape used) undulating hazy edge, took a shave. Wow. Scything the blade on my heavy beared was more effective with this edge than my "perfect" edges. My theory, is that if you make the edge so smooth without any tooth at all, that blade will be a fantastic chopper(they are) but inferior scyther. Scything is an essential part of the shave IMHO because for one, it lowers the effective cutting angle and is easier on the edge. That means less force and more close shave on your face. Another paradigm bites the dust, progress made. Hope this helps someone else looking for the "perfect edge".
By the way, After coming off the DMT 1200, I use a more agressive middle stone then raise a light slurry on the JNat Nak Asagi and hone away until slurry begins to dry out, then strop and no longer obsess with the microscope. No tape, no double bevel.

Originally Posted by StraightRazorDave

What I've found to work well is to use a slurry created using a matching Nakayama slurry stone, and hone using that slurry until it is pretty pastey. As mentioned above, this usually takes 100-200 strokes. I've only done this when the edge is fairly sharp, i.e. off of an 8k, coticule, or Mejiro nagura slurry.

Although I do finish on a dried slurry-paste, and not clean water, it leaves a very sharp edge. Also, it leaves a very uniformly shiney bevel that is kind of hazy with no appearance of scratches. I know the visual appearance of the bevel doesn't tell you much about the edge and isn't always important, but I really like how uniform it looks after I'm done.

This has been my experience, too. I got it from something that JimR posted somewhere. It seemed really counterintuitive to be finishing on a concentrated paste, but it worked great! I wound up with a bevel that looked more like fine, frosted glass rather than shiny, but what the hey...

So I'm reporting back from yesterday. I said I would give the razor that was previously honed, and finished, on my Nakayama with slurry laps on the Nakayama with only clean water.

I did it in sets of 50, since it's a slow stone, and checked the bevel with 30x magnification. After the first 50 laps I didn't see any change in the bevel. After 100 total I began to notice that the very edge of the bevel (perhaps about 1/4 of the bevel) was getting shiney, while the rest still had that hazy finish. I repeated the same procedure another 2 times, so 200 laps in total, to see if the shiney area of the bevel would grow, but it did not. I think it must have to do with the very weak cutting power of my stone with water only.

I stropped it as normal and shaved. The razor did seem slightly sharper! It also seemed to shave my skin a little closer, and with less effort. But, it was not skin friendly to me. It left my face feeling a little bit sensitive, and the alum stung more than normal.

So although my stone isn't fast with just water, it certainly does refine the edge a little more and polishes the very edge. But my face seems to prefer an edge finish on slurry. The difference wasn't that much, it was just a little sharper, but that doesn't make up for the harshness for me.

Once again, that's how my face reacted to my shaving technique, everyone's different. You just have to find what works for you!