Thread: Jnat Finisher honing with Water Only

Mine is quite fast on water, so lately, I'm test shaving off of light slurry & if I want to try more, I'm trying a 3-2-1 a la Glen's approach to the Shapton 30k (another fast cutting high grit hone). Either that or 5 light strokes on water @ a time & then test shaving as it's very easy to do too much.

As far as jumping on water , maybe your stone is glazed? You might try a light lapping & see if that improves the feedback on water. But you're getting great edges on slurry already, so really it's your call.

Originally Posted by PA23-250

Mine is quite fast on water, so lately, I'm test shaving off of light slurry & if I want to try more, I'm trying a 3-2-1 a la Glen's approach to the Shapton 30k (another fast cutting high grit hone). Either that or 5 light strokes on water @ a time & then test shaving as it's very easy to do too much.

As far as jumping on water , maybe your stone is glazed? You might try a light lapping & see if that improves the feedback on water. But you're getting great edges on slurry already, so really it's your call.

No it's not glazed at all, behaves the same freshly lapped and rubbed with a tomo nagura.
If I use it lapped with a DMT 325 without rubbing it smooth it works without jumping but as soon it gets back to its super smooth self it wont work without slurry.
It looks like it's so dense it will suck in and grab the steel like two pieces of gauge blocks.

Originally Posted by Lemur

Well, I've got some that won't work with water only at all, the surface of them is to fine I guess, the razor gets stuck and starts to jump.

Lemur
What is happening with your blade is very common, not only in razors but in tools too. It is basically suction fighting against the forward motion of the blade as you push it. The suction is the result of of your very flat and well formed bevel and the very flat dense surface of the stone. I have heard and used the term "skippy", and a skippy stone can lead to a "scratchy" stone syndrome. Very hard stones are selfish in giving up slurry, but they will if forced to, and the suction between the blade and the stone will pull up a piece of grit that has a weakened bond with the stones matrix. It is noticable when this happens because it is an isolated piece of grit floating on the surface all by itself with no other grit particles to associate with, sort of like one toy glass marble on the floor, if you step on it it hurts your foot, but if you walk on a floor totally full of marbles your foot rides on the top surface of the whole group under your foot and it gives you a gliding feeling.

Hard stones by definition are stones that are selfish in easily giving up slurry. The silica particles in a soft (easily gives up slurry) stone or a hard stone are in themselves exactly the same, they are all hard as silica goes. It is the matrix of the clay binders that determine if a stone is hard or softer. Compaction under the mountains weight and where the stone is found in the mine system has a lot to determine a stones hardness because the watersoluable clays can be squeezed out of a stone leaving the stone clay poor but silica rich.

A silica rich very hard stone is susceptible to releasing rogue particles that stand all my themselves suspended in water for some of the same reasons that super hard or mistakenly over hardened steel is very brittle and will chip, the bonding molcules surrounding the grit are either not present or are deminished.

The slight suction action from a lightly held straight razor with a bevel width of about 0.05mm would seem to be nothing to worry about, but if you were a grit particle of about 2 microns small and your brothers and sisters were not holding onto you that slight suction might feel like a large vacuum cleaner was trying to pick you up out of the group.

This is one reason that suita stones with their small "su" holes are easier to use under heavy hand pressure and so forth, less suction because the ancient gas voids allow for the suction pressure to be modulated as the blade passes over the area.

just my 2cents, Alx

p.s. Please Max, give me a break!

Thanks Alex, that was how I figured it be to.
I have actually seen a jnat that had tiny groves carved over the surface, I believe that might be some suction control.

Yes, I believe you. And using a diamond plate will also leave shallow scratches which will do the same thing.
Alx

Originally Posted by mainaman

if you keep on going that will change and the razor will start gliding as if on glass, then you are done.

Stefan, I have just started to notice this as well. The stiction makes it very hard to move the blade and I have to use considerable force to get the razor to glide on the stone. At some point it just seems to STOP sticking and glide smoothly. I've just started getting that to happen so I'm curious to see if that gives a better edge!

Maksim put my Ozuku Mizu Asagi at a level 5+ and sent a wakasa tomo nagura with it. I'm having a terrible time with the tomo nagura scratching the surface of my Ozuku. It doesn't seem to have an impact on honing but I'm starting to not like the scratches in the surface of my stone....

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Stefan, I have just started to notice this as well. The stiction makes it very hard to move the blade and I have to use considerable force to get the razor to glide on the stone. At some point it just seems to STOP sticking and glide smoothly. I've just started getting that to happen so I'm curious to see if that gives a better edge!

I've tried applying more force to make it move, then I get a "SCREEEEEECH", big scratch in my stone and blade...

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Maksim put my Ozuku Mizu Asagi at a level 5+ and sent a wakasa tomo nagura with it. I'm having a terrible time with the tomo nagura scratching the surface of my Ozuku. It doesn't seem to have an impact on honing but I'm starting to not like the scratches in the surface of my stone....

I've got some combinations that don't play well together, however light you let them touch they will scratch.
Some can be tricky and others are smooth and easy to use.
Did Maksim test them together?
Small scratches I wouldn't worry about, it's only cosmetic but a scratch might well mean that you now have some toxic particles in you slurry, as soon some of mine scratch I clean everything and start over.

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Maksim put my Ozuku Mizu Asagi at a level 5+ and sent a wakasa tomo nagura with it. I'm having a terrible time with the tomo nagura scratching the surface of my Ozuku. It doesn't seem to have an impact on honing but I'm starting to not like the scratches in the surface of my stone....

you need softer tomonagura, you can also make some grooves in the tomonagura to make slurry easier.