Thread: Jnat Finisher honing with Water Only

Yes, I have tried with tons of them
That's part of the allure for me when it comes to Japanese Hones.
Oddly enough, the ones I find works best for me, is not the one cut from the stone.
In fact, all my best combinations involve Tomonaguras and finishers from different mines and/or stratas.

There are tons of possibilities, and so many ways to reach that edge we all chase..

I seem to have found the right combinations of Tomonagura and finisher, but the quest will definitely continue.

Should I pinpoint the one that yields the very best, or at least most consistent finish, it would be the Nakayama Asagi and an extremely hard Ozuku Nagura.

But really, the steel also plays a role here.
There are razors that simply will not get that little extra from one combination, but seems to get scary sharp on others.

From what I remember, Glen (gssixgun) described us hone-nuts as the ones chasing the rainbow as it were.
I found that very fitting...

I found exactly the same thing, a piece taken from the base stone seems not to be the best tomonagura, even tho that practice have been a "truth" for some time.
I guess what we are looking for is just the perfect mix of very fine abrasive particles together with something that will buffer them and cushion the steel against the stone.

I for one haven't tried "tons of them", i wish... But hey, I'm only a stones throw away!

Originally Posted by Lemur

I found exactly the same thing, a piece taken from the base stone seems not to be the best tomonagura, even tho that practice have been a "truth" for some time.
I guess what we are looking for is just the perfect mix of very fine abrasive particles together with something that will buffer them and cushion the steel against the stone.

I for one haven't tried "tons of them", i wish... But hey, I'm only a stones throw away!

Indeed you are Lemur, indeed you are.

You should join one of our gatherings someday.
We are quite the active group here in and around Oslo, and we seem to meet up a few times a year.
We started what we called "Nordic RazorCon" last summer, and we will repeat that this coming summer as well

Originally Posted by Birnando

Indeed you are Lemur, indeed you are.

You should join one of our gatherings someday.
We are quite the active group here in and around Oslo, and we seem to meet up a few times a year.
We started what we called "Nordic RazorCon" last summer, and we will repeat that this coming summer as well

I'll see about that, got some bad cash flow... It flows all right but only in the wrong direction!
But should you ever come by Gotland I'll show you the best Jnats in the world, well best at my place at least, that is if you don't bring any!

When I use Jnats I use a prepolisher with mejiro nagura to prep the edge to move to a finisher.
On a finisher most of the time I use tomonagura slurry dilution and finish on water with a few strokes.
Not all finishers are equal, some are more aggressive, some are less, some are softer some are very very hard.
Some finishers may allow to finish on water only, but I personally have not seen many, most are good with slurry and dilution.
It is very important to have the correct tomonagura for the finishing stone, not any piece of Jnat will work well, in general the tomonagura has to be softer than the base stone, also almost as fine even finer if possible, and the slurry should be able to break down fast. In my opinion a good tomonagura is a soft very fine stone. The really hard tomonaguras are just a waste of time and money.

Originally Posted by mainaman

When I use Jnats I use a prepolisher with mejiro nagura to prep the edge to move to a finisher.
On a finisher most of the time I use tomonagura slurry dilution and finish on water with a few strokes.
Not all finishers are equal, some are more aggressive, some are less, some are softer some are very very hard.
Some finishers may allow to finish on water only, but I personally have not seen many, most are good with slurry and dilution.
It is very important to have the correct tomonagura for the finishing stone, not any piece of Jnat will work well, in general the tomonagura has to be softer than the base stone, also almost as fine even finer if possible, and the slurry should be able to break down fast. In my opinion a good tomonagura is a soft very fine stone. The really hard tomonaguras are just a waste of time and money.

What about tomonagura that is a piece chipped off the same stone?

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

What about tomonagura that is a piece chipped off the same stone?

It will depend on the stone, you can always use well used diamond plate to raise slurry.

Originally Posted by Lemur

I found exactly the same thing, a piece taken from the base stone seems not to be the best tomonagura, even tho that practice have been a "truth" for some time.
I guess what we are looking for is just the perfect mix of very fine abrasive particles together with something that will buffer them and cushion the steel against the stone.

..

So just buy yourself some nagura progression pieces and a base piece of marble/slate/something hard. Why fork out Jnat-cash on a base stone you don't use? I've never understood the "logic" behind this nagura progression honing and then *not* using the base stone at the end.

My Nakayama asagi works extremely well without a "tomonagura", but if I ever feel in the need I rub it with a diamond plate to get some slurry. Works very well either way. So to answer your question yes there are Jnats out there that work very well with water only (sometimes I even use it dry - feels like silk no matter what you do with it in fact).

I think the trick is to get good information from a good vendor who is not just going to push what they have in stock on you. I waited almost 4 months for my stone to be sourced from Japan by my vendor, but then I think my guy works on a different time frame to many people. Well worth the wait, well worth the money.

Good luck.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

So just buy yourself some nagura progression pieces and a base piece of marble/slate/something hard. Why fork out Jnat-cash on a base stone you don't use? I've never understood the "logic" behind this nagura progression honing and then *not* using the base stone at the end.

My Nakayama asagi works extremely well without a "tomonagura", but if I ever feel in the need I rub it with a diamond plate to get some slurry. Works very well either way. So to answer your question yes there are Jnats out there that work very well with water only (sometimes I even use it dry - feels like silk no matter what you do with it in fact).

I think the trick is to get good information from a good vendor who is not just going to push what they have in stock on you. I waited almost 4 months for my stone to be sourced from Japan by my vendor, but then I think my guy works on a different time frame to many people. Well worth the wait, well worth the money.

Good luck.

James.

Good point!

Then people could get a small piece of a good Jnat, grind of a little with the DMT on a cheap marble plate and hone away.
I've tried some set ups like that but to me it seems the slurry needs a good base stone.
I don't know what's going on between the slurry and stone but my guess would be that the slurry particles get a good grip on the stones surface,
so they can work on the steel moving on top of it and in the same process their cutting abilities diminishes.
Another base stone gives another result, sure they are "used", at the end all the slurry does is to lubricate.

Do you say a good finisher should always be able to be used with water only and the Nagura thing is just some trick if you have lower quality stones?

Originally Posted by Lemur

Good point!

Then people could get a small piece of a good Jnat, grind of a little with the DMT on a cheap marble plate and hone away. I've tried some set ups like that but to me it seems the slurry needs a good base stone.

not going to work well because marble is not a JNat and has different properties.

Do you say a good finisher should always be able to be used with water only and the Nagura thing is just some trick if you have lower quality stones?

the nagura is used to emulate grit progression on one base stone.
A good finisher should be able to be use with water only, how much work can be done on water depends on the stone.