Thread: NOS philly

Originally Posted by silverloaf

wow people are really reading things into statements that are not there! this is happening a lot lately. "NEED" is a strong word and was never said. my statement came simply from my own observation and use of more narrow hones being held in hand, being easier FOR ME to be able to isolate and correct trouble areas on a blade over successive honings without introducing heavy and uneven wear in certain areas on a blade.

8x3" in hand works just fine to hone anything.

especially with a frowning blade i found that true where a standard hone works but often hits the toe and heel only unless you apply more pressure than you would while performing a standard honing. that flexes the edge and results in heavy wear at those areas with a tiny bevel maintained in the middle.

To fix a frown in general one has to hone the toe and the heel till all the bevel is straight and contacts the hone evenly. That is the slow way of doing it, there is a faster way that requires coarse stone and lifting the spine off the hone, then bevel set just like any other razor. There is nothing special about fixing frowns, just a bunch of work on the bevel setter.

" if its not extreme you can shave fine with it in most cases and the edge can be maintained with a narrow hone and the frown corrected over the course of successive honing sessions......." ill add: but is a narrow hone necessary? no. hows that?

except the frown is not fixed and the geometry is messed up at the from both the edge and the spine. Narrow hones are a way to dance around a problem and not addressing it. Not to mention that one has to have a separate set of hones to hone frowning razors? Not a dead horse, it is important to realize that newbies are reading those threads and what is being said can impact the learning curve in positive but also negative ways.

Food for thought: If this were a Gold Dollar, people would go, "you've been warned". $85 for a mass produced export razor with a defective edge in used state... Well, yes...

Originally Posted by mainaman

8x3" in hand works just fine to hone anything. To fix a frown in general one has to hone the toe and the heel till all the bevel is straight and contacts the hone evenly. That is the slow way of doing it, there is a faster way that requires coarse stone and lifting the spine off the hone, then bevel set just like any other razor. There is nothing special about fixing frowns, just a bunch of work on the bevel setter. except the frown is not fixed and the geometry is messed up at the from both the edge and the spine. Narrow hones are a way to dance around a problem and not addressing it. Not to mention that one has to have a separate set of hones to hone frowning razors? Not a dead horse, it is important to realize that newbies are reading those threads and what is being said can impact the learning curve in positive but also negative ways.

stephan- good points, im not trying to contradict anyone but you do seem to be stuck on my statement and cant keep on topic. i apologize if my statement caused the sidetrack, not my intention at all. if you disagree with anyone using a narrow hone then thats your right. i have seen virtues in narrow hones, but in stating what i did i was in no way trying to start such an exhaustive debate, that is not at all what this thread was started as. if you go back and reread what i said you might notice i said "frown corrected over the course of successive honing sessions" which for anyone who knows how to correct a defective edge will understand isolating areas of the blade, as you stated: "To fix a frown in general one has to hone the toe and the heel till all the bevel is straight and contacts the hone evenly." (if tape is used employing this method it may keep newbies from introducing uneven wear to the spine and ending up with ruined geometry in the end as you said) so i feel you are wrong in directing your statement at me that "except the frown is not fixed and the geometry is messed up at the from both the edge and the spine." (again, using tape on the spine keeps the spine plane same and all you correct over time is the heel and toe areas, keeping all in plane) that was the whole point of what i was saying, deal with it over time, sometimes no need to correct it all at once if a frown is not severe. again- my statement was not meant to explain exhaustively how to deal with and correct the frown, that has been handled in many a thread intended for that discussion.
you may be one who prefers to do it right then and there. i certainly am myself. i said what i did as a caution to newbies and experienced folks alike. i dont like a frown in my blades but i also know avery slight frowning blade that is not severe, can indeed be shave ready and corrected in successive honings with the methods you stated. if someone pushes the idea that is not true i just personally disagree and i dont think it is 100% to the benefit of the straight razor community nor to the life of the razors being bought up by newbies and "corrected" on a daily basis. ive seen many deformed because of what newbies read as law stated by some folks, just not beneficial to be so dogmatic i feel. as an aside, some of my favorite and most useful hones were a vintage coticule, only 1 1/2" wide and a vintage thuri that is 2 1/2" wide (i still consider it a "narrow" hone) but 99.9999999% of the time i use my full grown bench stones at 3" wide and yes i do use them in hand as well as in a holder. smiling blades i often tend to use one side or half of the full grown stones whe doing rolling x strokes and then i turn the stone end for end and use the other side/half. for me i feel like i dont need to lap as often and in essence on full grown stones im using the equivalent of my narrow coticule. on most other blades than a smiling blade i tend to use the whole stone when performing whatever strokes im employing. thats me, not saying my way is superior, best but simply it is my preferred style and shows newbies and more experienced honers that there are more than one way to accomplish something if the fundamentals are in place.
so stephen- i apologize again if i said something that doesnt sit well, my intentions were to be beneficial and i may have missd that mark completely.
and Ks StraightShaver- i apologize for starting the off topic jaunt, not at all my intention

Silverloaf no apology needed I don't think you hijacked the post you gave very good advice, that again I agree with others disagreed an made it about that instead of the razor.

It took all of 10 minutes to fix as it was that slight an I honed only the heel until it evened out an then ran a few X-strokes to make sure the bevel was completely straight.

Now I'd like to go into why I agree. I don't care if you get a cinder block from your yard Or a rock from the river as long as the smile/frown or whatever the problem is, is corrected it's the right way. That's is why we say YMMV because everyone has their own way of doing things an as long as it works for you an it corrects whatever the problem is then good for you job well done. Your mileage varied!