Thread: honing info for a newbie...

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by cyrano138

eh.

i don't see any reason not to try and learn to use the norton, even if i don't need to use it regularly. has anyone on this board ever gotten a really close shave with a norton-only honed razor?

i can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear it. the thought of cluttering up my life and bathroom with a whole lot of stuff makes me shiver.

My opinion is that you cannot use straight push pattern on new razor effectively. Neither on the one with straight or curved edge. Either you reestablish the bevel on the coarse hone (sandpaper) the way you will hone the razor in the future, or you learn to hone X pattern. If you read carefully the "science of pyramides" thread again, you will understand why.

Nenad

Originally Posted by cyrano138

eh.

i don't see any reason not to try and learn to use the norton, even if i don't need to use it regularly. has anyone on this board ever gotten a really close shave with a norton-only honed razor?

Absolutely. I use a very light touch on the Norton towards the end of the honing process and I get a very nice shave. The LIGHT touch is the key.

-R

Originally Posted by mparker762

That should work. Swaty's are small; you'll have to use the X pattern on it.

Joe Lerch on this board is convinced that if you do a couple of laps on a swaty every time you shave then you will never have to use a norton on it unless you somehow damage the edge. You might want to try this approach.

Is that how you understand what I said?

The idea is to do it when it's needed, when the edge feels a little unsharp after honing. It could be once a week, but you would need to have steel wool beard to have to do it every day.

And I never said you'd never have to hone, just that you could do it indefinitely without having to hone. There are a lot of variables, but you shouldn't have to hone for a long time. I have a few razors that I haven't honed in over a year.

Maybe we're all doing the same thing, I remove a little at a time every few days, always keeping the razor keen, and others let it deteriorate more and hone once a month. It just seeks a lot easier to do a few swipes every couple of days than to sit down to a full honing session.

Originally Posted by superfly

My opinion is that you cannot use straight push pattern on new razor effectively. Neither on the one with straight or curved edge. Either you reestablish the bevel on the coarse hone (sandpaper) the way you will hone the razor in the future, or you learn to hone X pattern. If you read carefully the "science of pyramides" thread again, you will understand why.

Nenad

I think you need to explain that.

Now you're talking about the straight push which has been used by Germans since wide stones have been available. Maybe someone should tell them it doesn't work.

The simple truth is that almost anything works and it's not rocket science. I can tell you this from personal experience. The only thing the x-pattern can do that a push can't is create a slanted scratch pattern and produce an extreme smile (why?). In fact if you look at directions that come with barber hones, some even tell you to hone dry and use a light circular stroke. I experiment a lot, and I've tried many ways, and they all work. The best one is the one that works best for you on the particlar job.

If you are new, the push will give you a more even edge than the x-pattern (it has a steeper learning curve). Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself and see. But any suggestion that the push doesn't work is poppycock. Don't let it discourage you from trying.

Feel free to change the pyramid to suit your needs. Changing to a 1/10 makes a lot of sense and so does just using the 8k.
Just remember that the 8K cuts very fast so go slow and shave test .

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Maybe we're all doing the same thing, I remove a little at a time every few days, always keeping the razor keen, and others let it deteriorate more and hone once a month. It just seeks a lot easier to do a few swipes every couple of days than to sit down to a full honing session.

Joe, I apologise; I think I have been misunderstanding you. I was under the impression that most people refreshed their blades every few days to a week and then after a while they would have to take it to the norton, and that what you were saying was to refresh the blade much more often (basically every shave or every other shave) and never let the blade degrade at all. I've been hitting the 1 and 1/2 micron pasted strops as soon as I notice the slightest drop in keen (6-7 shaves), as it only takes a few minutes to do. So it sounds like we've got same approach. I guess in a few months I'll find out if paddles work as well as the barber hone for this. Which barber hone are you using for this? I seem to remember it being a swaty, but I'm not certain.

Do you other old hands really only refresh your blades every 25-30 shaves or so? Or is it more like 5-7? Inquiring minds want to know.

Really good thread though huh? OK, so I'm at a little loss myself. I'm a huge proponent of the X pattern, HUGE. I don't see why a straight push wouldn't work, atleast initially too. And its connection to the pyramid? MMMMMMM, total loss. But, you've also got me lost on why you can't angle the scratch pattern with a straight push (say heal leading).

Joe- I assume your referring to a perpendicular straight stroke? I want to, very carefully and respectfully, query your point that "the straight stroke has been used by Germans since wide stones were available". Seems like a slightly broad reference. What is the source for that idea and when did broad stones become available or maybe a better question is; when were they not available? BTW...saying that Germans do things is hardly validation for its intelligence (sorry...I had to take that shot too). I have come across some references that German razor manufacturing companies used a straight perpendicular stroke to hone razors but also thought it was too expensive to "finish" the honing. In the videos I've seen a straight stroke being used as well with fingers all over the blade so I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that they were simply beveling the edge (I think it was in the TI factory). I'm not disputing your point, all those methods you mentioned do work, I'm just not clear on what Germans your referring to (a German Internet site?, all Germans?, a German razor factory?).

Guys...lets keep it light, its only shaving... but a great conversation piece too huh?

Oh, and I think I just got pulled into a thread drift. When the pyramid fails, I do it again. Keep in mind I don't "finish" using a pyramid. It only gets me close to the edge I want, then I use an ultra light touch (using an X pattern) to finish the edge to my satisfaction.

Also, I hone about every 15 shaves. Depends on the razor, but I don't keep track.

After reading this thread I am starting to wonder? I have been using the X and after reading the 1961 Barbers Text. They are saying to use the X to create a smile in the blade. Something to the effect and not the exact words. A flat blade will cause discomfort to the customer causing the blade to drag, the heel and toe shood be above the middle of the blade. This is achieved by proper honing technique then they show diagrams of the X pattern with heel leading slightly.
But the Swaty directions I have show a straight stroke with the heel leading?
I have been doing the X with the heel slightly leading.