Thread: Help an old guy out with lathering

I had huge lather issues long into my shaving career. I have hard water, and could not get long lasting lather. Started using bottled water and had tremendous results. Then, I got my shavemac d01. It's like it grabs on to the hard water and transforms in into instant perfect lather. I think there are many variables, but ultimately the quality of the brush makes the biggest difference, from my experience. Others may have different opinions.

having hard water (like me) can definitely effect the quality of the lather too. you need to know whatcha got and adjust the water-to-soap ratio.

i brought a soap with me on vacation once and it was a LOT easier to get a meringue-like lather going with soft water.

i either need to move or get a good water softener system installed. =]

My water has trace amounts of radium in it, I find this really brings my lather to the next level.

Because my water is temperamental, probably hard and absurdly minerally, which changes through the year. This means I have to slowly adjust how I make my lathers. Typically a luke-warm soak under the faucet, gently squeeze out some water, load and face lather. I usually lean towards a higher soap content, as adding water is just easier for me than more soap.

I primarily use MWF I put the puck in the MWF container. Fill it with hot water completely covering the puck and let it sit over night. I do this as many times as it takes to get the puck to swell up enough to keep it from spinning in the container when I load the brush.

Once it is expanded into place my procedure goes like this: I always shave in the am before work (kind of a zen thing). I submerge the brush, halfway up the handle, in a rock glass of hot water. Fill the soap container w/hot water covering the puck. Take a shower. Dump out the soap water and brush water. Refill the rock glass with hot water. I dip the brush in the hot water and wet my face first. Shake the brush once or twice. Then I load the brush w/soap. I do not rinse my face between passes and usually don't rinse the brush out between passes either. Once the brush is loaded I also do not wet my face again before lathering.

I lather right on my face and add water as needed. I have tried scuttles, lathering in my hand, lathering in the bowl, etc. I have found lathering on my face to produce the best lather possible.

If I find I need more water then I dip the brush into the hot water up to where the bristles meet the handle. At this point the brush is loaded up so the amount of water I think I need determines how long I keep the brush in the hot water. This took some time for me to figure out because I noticed the brush didn't soak up as much water when it was loaded so I had to keep it in the water longer if that makes sense. If I need a lot of water then I give the brush a few small twists while in the water.

Again, the above method is for MWF. I also use Tabac, Ogallala, TOB, Kramperts frostbite, and a few others including a few cremes. With those, including the cremes, I do not soak the soap with water. I use it "dry" and find I can still get a great "cool whip" like lather. If I decide I want to use water with the soap I drip enough water to cover just the top of the puck.

I have recently been trying the MWF procedure on a puck of Ogallala but it doesn't seem to soak up as much water as a puck of MWF.

I struggled for sometime trying to get the type of lather you are seeking. Watching youtube vids, reading posts, whatever. I feel the biggest difference for me has been lathering directly on my face. I am now using a puck of Ogallala and I don't put any water on it at all - completely dry. I always soak the brush in hot water, use hot water to wet my face first, shake the brush of excess water, then load and lather.

I use a Simpson Beaufort brush that is now about 4 years old.

The reason I use hot water is because I always remember my grandmother telling me as a child that cold water would get rid of soap suds in the sink faster than hot water (or something like that). I've used cold water in the past and sure enough I noticed that for me it didn't help create better lather.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by RFP357

I almost always have to go back to the soap for more. Someone in this thread said there are no rules to this game and they are precisely right. I have struggled early on with this lathering thing but have figured out my routine that works especially well with MWF. It is outlined in a response to the original post by jimmyHAD

I like your solution to the spinning MWF. I will try it when I get a refill. I may also try the glass of water to soak the brush. I've face lathered, bowl, scuttle, I may just be short of water, and maybe I need to go hot on the lathering. I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the detailed post.

Originally Posted by cau

This asks a question I've had for a while and never had answered. Do you ever have to go back to the jar for more soap and rebuild the lather in the brush? Sometimes I feel I need to add more soap because the lather left in the brush is too wet. I rinse my face between passes and the extra water thins the lather... Suggestions.

I almost always have to go back to the soap for more. Someone in this thread said there are no rules to this game and they are precisely right. I have struggled early on with this lathering thing but have figured out my routine that works especially well with MWF. It is outlined in a response to the original post by jimmyHAD

Just to clarify. The problem is with all soaps not just one in particular ?

I've always been lazy about lather & cheat by adding a couple of glycerin or a small dab of shave cream to get my desired lather.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Just to clarify. The problem is with all soaps not just one in particular ?

I've always been lazy about lather & cheat by adding a couple of glycerin or a small dab of shave cream to get my desired lather.

Some are worse than others. Now with glycerine soaps, like the QED products I never had a problem, if I did it right. OTOH, with D.R. Harris, Trumpers, Tabac, MWF I had a heck of a time. The Tabac was hit and miss, the Harris and Trumpers were never any good under my roof.

When I learned to leave some water on the puck for 5 minutes before I lathered MWF, Tabac, other brands started to get good. For a long time I used MWF and a dab of one cream or another because with cream, bowl lathering, I always got the good lather. BTW, got good lather with Williams back then, and still. I don't think it is on Obie's top tier though

Also, I've been strictly cold water shaving for more years than I can remember, and, other than the lathering , I'm happy with that. I'm going to test the waters (pun intended) of lathering hot, shaving cold. See if that gets me along the way, + using techniques for wetting the brush thoroughly as posted above by a RFP357.

BTW, the reason I didn't just stick with glycerine based soaps, and with creams, is because when I ran out I was too cheap to buy more. I'd still use whatever I had even if it didn't work as well for me. Anyway .......... if I knew I was going to live this long I would have took better care of myself.

My lather routine.

Scuttle in the sink, reservoir and bowl with very hot water, not too hot, as too much heat will break down the lather and cause it to be runny IME.

Good splash of same hot water on the soap puck if it's a hard soap.

I only dip the tips of the brush in the water. The wet tips allow some great grip while loading the brush, and primarily, you want the brush filled with lather, not water, so working the brush in the scuttle will work the soap back up into the brush and moisten it nicely with lather, not water - great tip from Sharptonn. Also maintains more backbone on the brush, which is nice, and depending on how deeply you dip the tips of the brush, I've found you can control the amount of backbone you want - YMMV.

Solid loading of the brush. I always load to fill the scuttle for 3 or 4 passes. This is where I've always run into errors with hard soaps - not loading enough - Le Pere Lucien is an example of a soap that you must load extensively to get a decent lather. Various soaps will produce various grades of lather.

I start with just a small surface layer of water in the scuttle, and add water until the soap slowly blossoms / blooms. You can always add more, you can't take away, and some soaps are very thirsty, while others don't need much at all, for me an example of this would be Penhaligon's, doesn't need much.

Creams for the most part are a no brainer - with the exception of making sure you don't use too much. Too much cream, and your brush turns into a pasty ice cream cone - not good and is a horrible experience to lather with.

At this point, working the lather in the very warm scuttle and letting it sit for a minute or two while I strop up the razor. I find this allows the soap to blossom more, as well as "melt" down some more, so I'll rinse my face, and work the lather again - then apply.

After the second pass, I always do a light face rinse, and lather for the third and final time for the final pass - sometimes if I'm particularily "Zen'ing" out in the shave, I'll do a 4th pass just because I want to.

But aside from quality soap, and there are so many fine soaps to try - the brush IMO, is a foundation to the shave, can make or break it in my opinion, and finding the right brush is a fun journey.

Let the water soak on the puck longer and when your picking soap off it keep going till you get lather on the puck. Cold or hot I find if it starts to make lather on the puck it will when it hits the face. I recently went from soaking the brush to just dipping it before hitting the puck. I am convinced it's all in softening the puck. Some need it more than others. I have also grated pucks into a different container. This shortens the soak time if you just can't wait. Or just leave a little water on the puck when you put it away.
My 2 cents that works for me.