Thread: Knot Sources Pros Cons

Not to hijack the thread however the Chinese can make a quality product if they have the desire. Volvo has an assembly plant in China and soon will be importing those cars into the U.S. Those cars will be every bit as good as the ones produced in Europe. Also many of the really high end Hi Fi equipment Manufacturers are doing assembly in China and quality has not suffered. Also their watchmaking is improving quickly and while not yet at Swiss quality it won't be too many years before it is.

I had a Thater brush. Got it in the group buy many years ago. As you can see, I put an o-ring on it as I did not like the excessive 'bloom' nor the height the knot was set at. Seemed to defeat the qualities I personally like in a brush.
After a few with properly set TGN 2-band knots, I could no longer convince myself that the Thater was the end-all.
The knot setting plus the cheesy plastic handle made me regret the purchase. I stopped reaching for it altogether, removed the o-ring, washed and reboxed it. I was happy as a friend stated he desired one and sold it to him.
Took a year to get the money and am still 20 bucks short. Oh well!




Fast-forward, I am very happy with brushes with TGN knots. Years of use and no issues. Excellent performance, and (now) handles up to my standards. Do not miss the Thater one bit. As to equating prices with quality, TGN knots are not nearly as cheap as Sheng and others. I have seen a difference in them. Perhaps quality control.
I feel my current, one of a kind brushes are superior to an 'anyone can buy it and pay a lot' Thater.
Never jealous of those finely priced items. Fine is in my eye on my personal items. YMMV.

It's funny, I think I have learned so much in this thread about making knots, I'm contemplating scoring a small sack of badger hair making a little convex forming cup getting some string, scissors and epoxy and having a go at high end badger knot engineering.

I'm not sure how old everyone reading this thread is ....... but if you're old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was a synonym for junk, trash ....... low quality ...... Talking in the 1950s. Imports from Japan flooding all sorts of markets mirrored what we've seen with China in the past 20 years.

By the late '60s, early '70s Japan's manufacturing had evolved into a reputation for quality that rivalled any country in the Western world. I can see that beginning to happen in some products made in China already, and wouldn't be surprised if it continues.

On another note, when I was making the $ I went for the gusto. Plisson HMW, Simpson Manchurian, Rooney Finest. I wouldn't even consider a Gold Dollar or an artisan brush with a cheap Chinese knot. When I retired and got on a fixed income for a time I could understand that some of us appreciate the more affordable options. Not everyone has the disposable income to choose the high end stuff.

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

It's funny, I think I have learned so much in this thread about making knots, I'm contemplating scoring a small sack of badger hair making a little convex forming cup getting some string, scissors and epoxy and having a go at high end badger knot engineering.

I will be doing it come hell or high water. Never thought I could French braid hair, paint toe nails, or deal with 3 crying girls at the same time..... I did all those.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'm not sure how old everyone reading this thread is ....... but if you're old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was a synonym for junk, trash ....... low quality ...... Talking in the 1950s. Imports from Japan flooding all sorts of markets mirrored what we've seen with China in the past 20 years.

+1 on that, I was going to make a similar point regarding when I was young I remember seeing some of the early Honda motorcycles and Civic automobiles. People were laughing on the streets what silly looking little things they were. Fast forward a decade or so and they almost burried Harley Davidson and some of the US car manufacturers in the wake of their sillyness. I didnt want to say it due to being too off topic and fodder for more errant discussion.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Glen, that is a great question. Since we have several members from China, why not send them on a fact finding tour? Can't be that difficult, really. And who knows what else they'll find? Like those few hundred Heljestrands we found in Eskilstuna. Glorious fun.


How do we know, indeed? Tell you what: They may actually be using the same process. But if they do, they are doing it wrong, cf this post.

The reality is much simpler: The Chinese do not aim for the high quality market. They never have. They go for mass production, and low- to mid-end markets.* First when they flooded the market with black badger paint brushes, then with badger cosmetic brushes. That is why so few traditional brush makers have survived. There is no market for high quality paint or cosmetic brushes (I'm talking about the consumer segment, not (make-up) artists). Viktoria make decent shaving brushes, but as you can see, they use industrial machinery to speed up the production process. Which is not what high quality brush makers do. Quality has its price when it comes to manufactured products, I'm sorry.

To tell you the truth, though, I find it remarkable that, in this forum, on the one hand craftsmanship is a virtue that is extolled, but on the other, people are more than happy to accept inferior goods just because they're cheap. And Chinese knots are inferior, it's as simple as that. They are also cheap. But if you want cheap and serviceable shaving stuff from China, get a Gold Dollar with a Frank Shaving** brush. They'll work. Only, they're not what we're here for, are they?

Just saying

Have fun
Robin

* Yes, I know that that doesn't apply to all their ICT equipment and similar high tech stuff.

** I am actually doing FS brushes a big injustice here. A friend of mine is bringing a few over from China, because I like them, as they are cheap yet very good - for their price which is laughable.

So you made assumptions You could have just said that .. But it does pretty much discount your entire argument to simply opinion..

Anybody else actually know ???

It seems that the system is relatively easy, simple turned metal Go/No Go gauges for shaping and stacking..

One statement that makes little sense is the one about "Trimming the Tips" that seems that it would actually add a step and complicate a very simple process, even if the process was automated..

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

It's funny, I think I have learned so much in this thread about making knots, I'm contemplating scoring a small sack of badger hair making a little convex forming cup getting some string, scissors and epoxy and having a go at high end badger knot engineering.

Great minds

I was thinking the same thing but the thought was more "Hmmmmmm I could make a whole bunch of Black Bear brushes"

Just need to turn a simple Brass 26mm gauging tool and go for it

Or even Wolf or Wolverine

Originally Posted by gssixgun

One statement that makes little sense is the one about "Trimming the Tips" that seems that it would actually add a step and complicate a very simple process, even if the process was automated..

This never made sense to me either. Why give a brush a relatively complex haircut so to speak, when the production technique outlined here is so much faster and gets a better result.

I was joking about making the knots really ill leave that to the brush guys if they are so inclined. To me a lot of the mystery behind the construction of these things have become much clearer due to this very interesting thread