Thread: Strike against Syria

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I'm very interested in what it IS then? Do we need a new designator and what should that be?

An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic


The US is a Republic

That is a pretty good read about the differences

Originally Posted by Brenngun

Yes I do. The USA is a constitutional republic that employs a system of a democracy. I don't recall seeing the words "Special Interests" in the constitution unless there's been a new amendment. I maybe wrong but 218 Yeah's = a majority. Despite my "simplistic thoughts" I'm always willing to learn from those who may have more information. Please enlighten me as to which current civil right was gained without a majority vote that would then be in jeopardy of repeal? You're right to shake your head. The system is broken but not beyond repair. Removing the money and giving the power back to the voters would be a big step forward to ensuring civil rights for everyone.

And this pert should answer both of you..

Simply put however, Majority rules until that rule steps on Individual rights.. So basically every Minority rights decision since the US was formed...

Look at the process of Gay Rights since 1970, nearly every Majority vote that has gone to the people has been against this and nearly all have been overturned by the Supreme court when challenged, which kicks everything back down to be re-worked..


Edit : Crouton beat me to an even better response

Originally Posted by crouton976

Our Constitution was instituted to limit just how powerful the Federal Government can be, and to enumerate and protect what our founding fathers believed were "natural rights" or "God given rights". The whole system, as it was originally designed, was a beautiful, beautiful thing. Unfortunately, at least in my opinion, we as a nation have become ignorant and complacent and lazy and allowed our Government to have too much power and control. Strictly speaking, the only real control they have is defined in our Constitution or if not explicitly stated there determined by our Supreme Court. All other power and control they have is given to them because the general populous perceives the Government to have it, either through ignorance, laziness, apathy or cowardice.

Jefferson warned against this. He thought, rightfully so, that the Supreme Court had no business determining the victor in matters that question the authority of the Federal Government. He believed it was absurd to have a branch of the Federal Gov't determining if the Federal Gov't was overstepping its bounds. Hence, the concept of nullification came about. Unfortunately you can't use nullification when the President decides to act militarily.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Jefferson warned against this. He thought, rightfully so, that the Supreme Court had no business determining the victor in matters that question the authority of the Federal Government. He believed it was absurd to have a branch of the Federal Gov't determining if the Federal Gov't was overstepping its bounds. Hence, the concept of nullification came about. Unfortunately you can't use nullification when the President decides to act militarily.

Yes, he did, and it's a shame his wisdom hasn't been taken into account. Smart man, that Jefferson.

Was it Jefferson or Franklin that said ... We gave them a perfect form of Government let's see if they can keep it"

All this talk of the grand old past and how the country was formed and how the constitution was written and it's applicability to this day and age is a wonderful exercise. If the U.S still consisted of 13 colonies taking up the same land area and the population was the same and the political realities the same as the 18th century you guys would be on to something. Unfortunately, this is not the case and things have changed to keep with up the change in the country overall. To keep lamenting about the past is just a yearning for the good old days. Better to deal with the present day realities and think about that rather than pine for the good old days of the 18th century.

Dunno, Glen, but This Jefferson quote from the link you posted above was truly prophetic:

"The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come it’s turn, but it will be at a remote period."

It's absolutely happened, in my opinion. Congress and the Supreme Court have been overstepping their bounds and killing off a perfect form of Government for many, many years. In the last several decades, we've seen multiple Presidents begin to follow the same trends. Congress & the Supreme's (sounds like a bad 50's doo wop act, huh?) stepped over the people, and in turn, Presidents have, with more and more regularity and frequency, begun stepping over Congress & the Supreme's.

For shame.

Syria. Interesting that the only major nation that's interested in a military action against Syria is France. Now lets see, what other Wars did they get us into???
1776, 1812, 1898, 1917, 1944, 1960's.....

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

All this talk of the grand old past and how the country was formed and how the constitution was written and it's applicability to this day and age is a wonderful exercise. If the U.S still consisted of 13 colonies taking up the same land area and the population was the same and the political realities the same as the 18th century you guys would be on to something. Unfortunately, this is not the case and things have changed to keep with up the change in the country overall. To keep lamenting about the past is just a yearning for the good old days. Better to deal with the present day realities and think about that rather than pine for the good old days of the 18th century.

That is exactly what we were warned against so many years ago.. The system is slow and ponderous for a reason, when you try and screw with that is when the problems start... Nobody is lamenting about the past

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

All this talk of the grand old past and how the country was formed and how the constitution was written and it's applicability to this day and age is a wonderful exercise. If the U.S still consisted of 13 colonies taking up the same land area and the population was the same and the political realities the same as the 18th century you guys would be on to something. Unfortunately, this is not the case and things have changed to keep with up the change in the country overall. To keep lamenting about the past is just a yearning for the good old days. Better to deal with the present day realities and think about that rather than pine for the good old days of the 18th century.

Well, true, times have changed, but the laws have not, at least the ones that matter. Our political system was designed to be governed by a series of laws, the highest and final ones being the Constitution. I'm not saying that change can't happen, but if it's going to, it needs to be done per the procedures listed in the Constitution.

Until that happens, any "law" which is attempted to be enforced is illegal and null and void.

Originally Posted by crouton976

Dunno, Glen, but This Jefferson quote from the link you posted above was truly prophetic:

"The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come it’s turn, but it will be at a remote period."

It's absolutely happened, in my opinion. Congress and the Supreme Court have been overstepping their bounds and killing off a perfect form of Government for many, many years. In the last several decades, we've seen multiple Presidents begin to follow the same trends. Congress & the Supreme's (sounds like a bad 50's doo wop act, huh?) stepped over the people, and in turn, Presidents have, with more and more regularity and frequency, begun stepping over Congress & the Supreme's.

For shame.

But I'm afraid we are missing an important issue. Congress and the executive branch overstep their boundaries because there is no longer any accountability. The American people are asleep from the feast of government assistance. Under Obama foodstamps are now issued to one in every three families. Keep filling a cats bowl up with food and he keeps eating. What family is going to risk losing assistance for bucking the system, our electing someone against it?