Thread: Differences Between Police Officers & Civilians

Gents,
Ok I was a NYC cop for about five yrs.. I worked in the deadliest pct in Nyc.. After getting burnt out I was lucky enough to be one of the 184 guys out of 3000 to be selected to the port authority of ny and nj police dept. we lost the most amount of cops out of every police dept on 9/11.the wtc was actually owned and operated by the port authority so,it was our home.. That's my background when we go threw academy's we are taught law and ways to handle many situations .. Classroom being totally different from the street. Domestic and family cases are probably the biggest part of our job.. This video was most likely shot after the fact that it had escalated.. I can't say for sure but everybody wants to b so quick to take pics and video us when stuff becomes sticky or we may start to look wrong.. Where are the cameras when were doing good and doing our job. Do u see on the news the good we do everyday no... I'm not saying these cops were right wrong etc.. I don't know the full situation and really neither do any of us. Most of,us sign up to help our fellow man women when they have nowhere to turn. Policing is different now .. A lot different after 9/11 I can speak from my 15 yrs law enforcement background..

Spendur and Airportcopter, thanks for your responses... the purpose of this thread is to gain some insight, particularly from those with firsthand experience.

I went back and read my original post, and I want to apologize to everyone if it came off as Monday morning quarterbacking... that wasn't my intent, and the video isn't really what I wanted the focus to be on, just an example of the underlying queries I was trying to point out. I really do hope that all of you understand I'm not bashing police officers, as most of the ones I've ever met have been fantastic. Sure there are some who aren't, but I'd say this is the exception, not the rule. They're usually just average folks who are doing their job.

No worries brother.. just my 2 cents

Somewhat O.T. but what do you Leos think about this,happened in my town a few hrs ago.
Officer is giving a talk to some youug school children.
six yr old walks over and pulls the trigger on his holsterd auto,shoots the officer in the leg.
How in the hell can this happen.Find it funny as hell but also scary.

The officer had his head up his arse.
So long as no one was hurt but the officer ; cops have an unwritten book of fellow officers that are involved in the most stupid of incidents from all over the country, not just their own department. This book is reviewed at coffee breaks (Dunkin Donuts), roll-calls, parties & at Choir Practice. He has made himself a legend of the wrong kind, not to mention bye-bye promotions & a change of assignment.

Originally Posted by Airportcopper

I can't say for sure but everybody wants to b so quick to take pics and video us when stuff becomes sticky or we may start to look wrong..

Firstly, I want to make clear I have a lot of respect for the people who are into law enforcement. Especially in places where it is a difficult job.

In fairness, a big reason that people these days pull out their camera when something looks to be going wrong, is that whenever there is an incident between police and citizens, the police close ranks and the thin blue line becomes a wall of blue. As soon as there is no hard evidence (in the hands of the citizen) that the cop did something wrong, the citizen always gets the short end of the stick. They'll say the suspect resisted arrest, or became violent, or acted erratically, or any of a dozen things that cannot be proven after the fact.

The sad reality is that without video evidence, citizens have zero chance of being believed when it is word against word.

Originally Posted by Airportcopper

Where are the cameras when were doing good and doing our job. Do u see on the news the good we do everyday no...

Well no. But that's true for all of us.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Firstly, I want to make clear I have a lot of respect for the people who are into law enforcement. Especially in places where it is a difficult job.

In fairness, a big reason that people these days pull out their camera when something looks to be going wrong, is that whenever there is an incident between police and citizens, the police close ranks and the thin blue line becomes a wall of blue. As soon as there is no hard evidence (in the hands of the citizen) that the cop did something wrong, the citizen always gets the short end of the stick. They'll say the suspect resisted arrest, or became violent, or acted erratically, or any of a dozen things that cannot be proven after the fact.

The sad reality is that without video evidence, citizens have zero chance of being believed when it is word against word.



Well no. But that's true for all of us.

This is one of the few times that I have disagreed with one of your posts, Bruno. Most of the time you are right on the money with your observations. This time your way off mark, but many outside the perimeter of the "Blue Wall" as you call it, feel the same way as you do, so I'll try to explain a few things that will give you insight to the job of law enforcement, that you will not get from anywhere else. It's not personal Bruno, just a conversation friend.

Before I spout off, it's appropriate that I state what qualifies me to comment on the topic of law enforcement. I'm retired 25 years from the City of Miami Beach Police Department; been away from the job 6 years. My father & grandfather were police officers. Product of a divorced home,age 10, due primarily to the fact that my father cared more for the job than he did his own family; a great cop, horrible husband & parent. I learned to read by grabbing the True Detective magazines that my father tossed out, crime novels & criminal biographies took the place of Sports Illustrated & Playboy.I had no college degree, barely passed high school, arrested, spent a week in jail awaiting transport to the Raleigh Penitentiary; at the last minute (a Friday afternoon) I was given the choice of the Marines or prison, well,, we know what I choose. Left the Marines needing more excitement in my life & law enforcement in South Florida seemed to be the answer.

Competition for police officer jobs are fierce in big cities, not just kids out of high school looking for work, but men & women from all walks of life, many with education degrees that you would not believe exists among police officers.
I started the gauntlet of tests preceding being placed on a hiring list. The first was a written, over 620 people sat down in the convention center to take the timed test. I knew 2 months before the test date that I could not pass it. I had no math skills,,,(yes,there are math questions on the test), poor vocabulary, maybe 60 + "what if " questions.
So, I cheated, legally, I think? . I wise person pointed out the fact that the test was a standard civil service test & it would most likely be constructed from other written police tests that were already published, such as Los Angeles, NYC , etc. He stated that cities are notoriously cheap when it comes to their own SOP's, exams,,,they like to "copy" the hard work of other cities to cut costs, by not hiring a company to make an exam unique to their situation. The goal was to get your hands on these tests. A company named ARCO produced civil service exams. I got the ARCO book of police civil service exams. The book had 5 tests in it, I did each test 3 times in the two weeks before the city test at the convention center, I finished # 6 on the list, out of 620+. 85% of the questions were word for word from ARCO. The first 54 people on the list had college degrees, I was the only fly in the pudding, so to speak.

I worked narcotics as a young man, prostitution, burglary, robbery, auto theft & my main joy, patrol.
124 awards & commendations in 25 years.
I investigated my own fellow officers many times; contrary to what TV shows the world, a lot of the internal affairs investigations are assisted by members outside that unit. Many I.A. investigators are good detectives, but most are not because the position is an appointed one, a necessary step in the ladder to the top. If you want to catch bad cops, it takes a hell of a lot more than just a civilian with a video camera in most cases. It takes a cop who has rubbed shoulders with the bad. It takes cops who every time they see another cop do some thing blatently stupid or illegal on TV get caught by a video camera, take it personal.

Here are some facts, for thought:

Many more officers are convicted & jailed, without civilian video camera footage, than with. Many officers are killed & hurt do to the presence of video cameras mounted in their cars. The officers are thinking about their "conduct" first & the actions of the subject stopped second. This hampers their ability to percieve the danger present & opens a window of opportunity that the subject takes advantage of. GOOGLE Trooper Mark Coates & Constable Darrell Lunsford, these are only the two most famous, as they were killed when videos first came into use with police vehicles.

Hard evidence?? Well, most cops are fired, arrested, demoted, transferred without any video footage from a complaintent.

This statement:

"As soon as there is no hard evidence (in the hands of the citizen) that the cop did something wrong, the citizen always gets the short end of the stick. They'll say the suspect resisted arrest, or became violent, or acted erratically, or any of a dozen things that cannot be proven after the fact."

I don't know you personally, so I can't possibly know what makes you say such a blanket statement about police interaction with civilian complaintents. Yes, some officers will make crap up, to deflect bad aqusations they are faced with, most of them eventually get caught up in their own lies,,,,one thing for sure Bruno, it isn't always.

The Thin Blue Line.
Do you know what the thin blue line is? I doubt it, because very few officers even know what it is.
The thin blue line is a facade. There is no thin blue line Bruno. There never was. It is a term made up before the both of us were even born. It's related to mermaids & dragons. It is supposed to signify the line between the criminals in the street & the good people, the line being the police in their "usually" blue uniforms. When used in this context, it's o.k. , a way for officers, usually new guys on the job, to distinguish themselves from everyboby else in the world; as if their badge & oath they took were not enough, again, a comfort blanket,,,a facade.

This term is loved by Hollywood & used to describe a barrier that is put up by police to shield their wrong doings.
So think about it,,how hard would it be to get through something that is only words, a facade?

I've seen officers try to hide behind something, that they were foolishly told existed by other officers, they had their eyes opened to reality & accountability. I've witnessed prosecutors walk right through this blue wall in under 5 minutes & have officers turn on their own partners & i even witnessed one officer blame his own mother for his criminal acts while wearing the badge.

This blue wall is perception, it is not brick, forged steel , it's not even silk cloth, so how can it protect someone when confronted with truth,,,,it cannot.

The reality is, many officers will believe you without video evidence, if your telling the truth.

Sorry but I don't agree with you.

You see it again and again, when there is an issue where law enforcement is threatened the all stand side by side. I worked for the Federal Govt in various offices and worked closely with plenty of local and state agencies and saw the same theme again and again. Guys who were rotten apples who should have been fired at the start of their career being given the pass again and again until they do something so bad they finally have to get rid of them and even then the rank and file feel sorry for them.

My first partner was a retired NYPD Detective and the stories he told me about what went on could file 5 books. Of course that was a long time ago and I think things have improved to a point.

I think these issues had been a part of the Law Enforcement Profession since it first existed. The temptation and opportunity are more than some can stand. It's no different than any other profession. A certain element joins because they intend to game the system from the start and another element finds it easy to cross over to the dark side and another element feels pressure to join the dark side.

In many Departments the old saying "an honest man is a dangerous man" is very true.

I'm not saying all cops are crooks or dishonest or people who like to beat up on citizens but there are enough out there to be sure.

What part do you not agree with??
I read your post, but do not see what you are disagreeing with.

It seemed to me the tone of your post was all this negativity directed towards LEO's is all misplaced.