Thread: Protesters drive you to violence?

Do we really think that a government-dominated education is going to produce citizens capable of dominating their government, as the education of a truly vigilant self-governing people requires?

Here's another good site http://www.zombietime.com full of hilarious but serious photos. Take it for what it is worth. Laugh, get mad, but ultimately dismiss the idiots.

Originally Posted by jimmyman

Here's another good site http://www.zombietime.com full of hilarious but serious photos. Take it for what it is worth. Laugh, get mad, but ultimately dismiss the idiots.

ahhh yes... the so-called "enlightened" masses... who more often than not march against something they do not fully comprehend while drowning in their own ignorance...

and THAT is why I never argue with a protester

To the anti Israel mobe I have this :P
https://www.protestwarrior.com/store...p?productid=24

Originally Posted by Lancer

ahhh yes... the so-called "enlightened" masses... who more often than not march against something they do not fully comprehend while drowning in their own ignorance...

Lancer, you fail to give proper credit to the masses that completely understand the ramifications of complex foreign policy that should be adopted with countries they couldn't find on a map of the world. Domestic policies are a complete no brainer. If it sounds like a good idea, then the government should do it. OK.... maybe not.

It's like football. Why pay head coaches tons of money when everyone with an easy chair, remote control and a six pack can make better decisions.

OK before anyone gets the wrong idea, I have a LOT of respect for the soldiers fighting in Iraq.

That being said...

Last week there was a documentary on the situation in Iraq, and the US soldiers going there.
They interviewed a 19 year old who grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere who wanted to enlist in order to 'do his duty and fight for freedom' and 'fight the terrorists'

It occurred to me that
a) he has no clue what the war is really about
b) he has no clue that the only terrorists in Iraq are those that just want the US to stop occupying them, thankyouverymuch.
c) if he wanted to fight for freedom, he'd be better off, staying in the US and
c1) try to convince people to vote
c2) go into politics himself
c3) make people aware of what the current administration is doing in order to take them to account.

Instead of turning the world (preferably far away from the US) into a battlefield, the US administration should try to fix their internal problems first.

Ok, going to take a very little umbrage here with you Bruno, in the interest of open discussion and done with the greatest respect, understand that.

My take is first, I don' know what the 19 year old knows or doesn't know - I believe that is a matter of education. It is the truth of things that the young who must fight know much less than the older of us who don't fight. Frankly, I think that *one* US life is too much, one American dead at the hands of ignorant fanatics, where ever they are, is one too many - and I would vote to pull our troops out of the rest of the *world*, not just Iraq - and let all of you mice that roared take responsibility for your own security. It seems to me that Europe has far more to lose from Iraq and Iran getting intercontinental weapons that I do - because you are a hell of a lot closer than I am. It is all well and good to criticize the US for stepping in and doing something, however absolutely misguided and ultimately wrong, when you are -not- the one paying for it - these are my taxes, my child's future, my mind numbing lack of retirement, our bone crushing debt and our soldiers dying, not yours. You want a say, get in there and donate something, anything - we are still trying to get European countries to pay us what they promised for the first Gulf War, countries that promised money and welched. That is our history with Europe, and sad to bring it up, but it goes back to WW2 and we all know it.

That being said, if you believe that the violent Iraqi militias just want to get the US to leave Iraq, you are sorely misguided. This is not a matter of the US being the oppressive occupier, and everything will just be peachy when we leave, thankyouverymuch. However unfortunate it is that we are there, if we pull out, it will be a genocide that will make Darfur look like a mere gang rumble. I believe this - the stakes are too high - there is too much money to be made. The US was accused of going into Iraq for oil - but all I have seen is the $400 BILLION dollars already spent (and another 120 or so billion requested) by the US so far, and no repayment likely ever. If it were me I would take that oil in a heartbeat and start paying us back, but you know we never will get that money back. As soon as the US leaves it will be a sectarian war for all of that wealth, made even more vicious because it will be in the name of God. Very reminiscent of what the Christians did in the Crusades, from a historical context - and what atrocities did the Christians commit in the name of God? They didn't have the numbers of fighters and missiles and grenades and guns that these boys do here. If we pull out, and I think we should, is Belgium going to send peace keepers? Or are we going to rely on useless NATO smurfs with a hundred different languages and no real power t talk them to death? Who is going to deal with North Korea, or Iran? You folks in Europe? Japan? That most magnanimous and enlightened society of China, who has no human rights abuses anymore at all? The kind and gentle Putin and the brotherhood of wealthy and organized superior Russian states? Why is it our job to keep the rest of the world safe, and to pay for it with vast amounts of money and lives when we are derided and reviled for it? I tell you I am getting more and more isolationist as the world turns - you do not like our culture, our food, our Disney World? You hate Coke and McD's and all things American? So be it, we will draw up the mat and leave you to it. We will keep our technology and our fast food, our entertainment and our money, our financial support for the UN and pretty much everything else, and see where we are in a year. What country is the first to respond when there is a disaster? How many Belgians or Germans or French or Japanese came to help us when New Orleans was destroyed? We will keep all of the billions of dollars in aid we send around the world to every country with a hand out, famine and tsunami relief, Aids subsidies and disaster help, we will close our borders to all foreigners including the thousands of foreign students we train in our top universities to send back to their countries, and roll up the carpet. While I do not agree at present with a great deal of the administrations actions, I have to say that I live in the greatest state in the greatest country on the planet, with faults and injustices and warts and having seen a good selection of the rest of the world, I would not live anywhere else - IMNSHO.

Lord knows we could use the money we are spending to support the Iraqi circus here to improve our education system and health care and social security and provide for the homeless and the environment and a thousand other things that we should be doing here, where it is needed and wanted. The mistake, again in my opinion, that main mistake that we made in Iraq was our belief that if we gave the Iraqi's the opportunity to make their own destiny, to govern themselves, to rekindle the spirit of a people whose ancient birthright includes some of the greatest civilizations to have ever existed, that they would set aside their differences and work together to make a new, modern, diverse and wealthy Iraq. We did not count on what we actually got, which was sectarianism and petty squabbles, forest for the trees sort of responses - it befuddles me, and I think it befuddles the administration now. But as much as it will cause a blood bath - they won't do for themselves, they think it was better under Saddam, they want us out - then we need to get out - and let their neighbors deal with it. Either way, it will be our fault, so let's take our sons and daughters and bring them home, and wait to see who kills whom in the greatest numbers. God willing, let Him sort it out.

Ok, again, this is not pointed at you Bruno, nothing personal - and I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is I think I am in the majority in my views here - and I am sorry this turned into a rant, but good grief - I will go back to my lurking non-committal silent majority status.

K

Thank you Kriton ---by the way some of the smartest people I've ever met were poeple that grew up in little farms in the middle of nowhere --- and I can guarantee you that the average American soldier is not some dullard ----


Justin

I was not insinuating that our soldiers, where ever they are from are some kind of simpletons, actually far from it. It is my understanding that you can't be just some lost kid to get into the services anymore, that the acceptance standards are much higher than they were even 10 years ago. My point was that there is a reason why we prefer young malleable youth to fight, they still have their enthusiasm, their zeal, their belief in honor and the righteousness of the cause, the fearlessness of youth, and the resilience to persevere. I envy that fervor every day; it is rare and beyond priceless - and too rich to be squandered on a sand choked side street for a segment of a people that seem to care so little for their own lives as to kill with bombs strapped to their own bodies, and do not appear to shed a tear when our citizens are beheaded, destroyed or maimed, but rather dance and cheer.

For all in harms way, keep your head down, keep your powder dry, and come home soon and in one piece.


K

Originally Posted by Kriton

I was not insinuating that our soldiers, where ever they are form are some kind of simpletons, actually far from it. It is my understanding that you can't be just some lost kid to get into the services anymore, that the acceptance standards are much higher than they were even 10 years ago. My point was that there is a reason why we prefer young malleable youth to fight, they still have their enthusiasm, their zeal, their belief in honor and the righteousness of the cause, the fearlessness of youth, and the resilience to persevere. I envy that fervor every day; it is rare and beyond priceless - and too rich to be squandered on a sand choked side street for a segment of a people that seem to care so little for their own lives as to kill with bombs strapped to their own bodies, and do not appear to shed a tear when our citizens are beheaded, destroyed or maimed, but rather dance and cheer.

For all in harms way, keep your head down, keep your powder dry, and come home soon and in one piece.
K

I don't think Justin was suggesting that you we're saying that our boys are dullards. I believe that was directed towards Bruno! Oh, thank you for your words! Much appreciated!!


Bruno,
I've read many of your posts and have come to the conclusion,( based on your posts only), that you are a big hearted decent loving family man but I believe you are misguided on this point and should be more careful about inadvertantly insulting people when it comes to your personal views. However if being insulting was your intention well have at it but don't be surprised when you get a little back lash!!

No K --- I wasn't aiming it at you but at the notion of taking one --even a handful of 19 year old American soldiers ---and thinking one has as adequate sampling. Documentaries usually have a political angle and will pick individuals from a group that support their cause ---very easy to do.

It's difficult being a superpower--- maybe we should let China have a go ---or how about the old Soviet Union --I'm sure they would do a much better job (sarcasm intended).

I would like to see every country free and strong and proud and unique. At its core, America is tradionally an isolationist prone country --relunctant warriors really --- I too wish sometimes that we could retreat, build a wall, and say by-by ---but it ain't that simple.


Justin