Thread: President of the US of A

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

That had nothing to do with the trickle down theory. It was just the way things were. it was the result of the Union Movement and the idea of the social contract.

The trickle down theory widely revered by many has been tried time and time again and it has never worked though some keep believing in it.

Really? Did some poor fellow create, market and sell the computer you're posting on? How about the cars, microwaves, air conditioners, and DVD players owned by a large percentage of those at or below the poverty line? All that stuff came from who? Some wealthy innovator? Or some poor fellow living out of his car? Wait, that was kind of ironic...

Actually if I recall correctly didn't HP start in some garage? Oh no that was Bill Gates or no it was Steve Jobs. Many of the best inventions came from working class folks working in some basement or garage and in fact if you didn't have to sign over rights to products you invent these big mega corporations would have little. They basically buy it all even swallowing the smaller fish not to mention the patents they steal and litigate the rights away from the true inventors.

At any rate that's not trickle down economics by the book.

But if you're one of the ones who likes the theory then you should do all you can to ensure the rich get to keep everything and pay little in taxes and the middle class take it in the shorts. That way much more will trickle down to the little guy.

Har har.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Actually if I recall correctly didn't HP start in some garage? Oh no that was Bill Gates or no it was Steve Jobs. Many of the best inventions came from working class folks working in some basement or garage and in fact if you didn't have to sign over rights to products you invent these big mega corporations would have little. They basically buy it all even swallowing the smaller fish not to mention the patents they steal and litigate the rights away from the true inventors.

At any rate that's not trickle down economics by the book.

But if you're one of the ones who likes the theory then you should do all you can to ensure the rich get to keep everything and pay little in taxes and the middle class take it in the shorts. That way much more will trickle down to the little guy.

Har har.

And of course Bill Gates (who's father was a lawyer) and Steve Jobs (adopted by a middle-class couple) developed their products out of the goodness of their hearts, and not to make the eventual billions that they did. And they had the spare time to fiddle around inventing stuff only because their parents were the ones out on the street corners begging for food...

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

you should do all you can to ensure the rich get to keep everything

I think everyone should be able to keep the fruits of their labor. After all, what right does anyone else have to other peoples stuff? Oh that's right, "You didn't build that..."

Originally Posted by honedright

I think everyone should be able to keep the fruits of their labor. After all, what right does anyone else have to other peoples stuff? Oh that's right, "You didn't build that..."

Yeah that's one of the often used criticisms taken out of context.

Obama, July 13: There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

So here's a question: Lets say two couples go out for a night on the town, dinner and a movie. One couple is middle class, the other fabulously wealthy. Both couples see the same movie at the same theater, both order the same meal, same menu, at the same restaurant. Should both pay the same price?

Why should it be any different when it comes to government services?

Originally Posted by Utopian

Yeah that's one of the often used criticisms taken out of context.

Obama, July 13: There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

Sounds like an embedded sophist's argument against ownership of private property. Anyone who's successfully built a business knows that they did build that.

Originally Posted by honedright

I think everyone should be able to keep the fruits of their labor. After all, what right does anyone else have to other peoples stuff? Oh that's right, "You didn't build that..."

The real fruits of the collective labor (or the trickle down) is not so much in the money that you may or may not have but in the overall efficiency that the economy achieves. Unions do not create this. The benefit that we see comes in the lower prices and ease of bringing goods to the market in abundance at prices that people can afford. In 1900 a person would have to labor for nine hours to buy a pair of pants. In 1999 it was three hours. A three minute long distance call in 1950 would require 104 minutes of labor. In '99, two minutes. Today's poor walk around with more goods and services than the poor of yesteryear could never have imagined. There will always be someone with more than you have. Even in former communist states, there were some with more than others. The idea that rich people are holding all the wealth and not sharing it is a silly assumption.

I think the trump train can't be stopped. As much as I hate to say this next comment, I'm a realist and I believe it to be true. If hillary wins there will be another civil war. Who do you think will win? The gun fearing liberals or the doomsday prepping conservatives?

We do have to do some things together. The gov has to provide military, defend borders enforce contracts and protect people from crimes against them and their property. It is never successful when they interfere in anything else.