Thread: Apple's stand against the Feds

Originally Posted by UKRob

I really cannot believe the amount of doublespeak in this thread. Your Government department has made a very credible request for Apple to enable them to access data on a single phone without that single phone erasing records automatically.

That's it - end of story. Apple has been assured that they will not have to divulge how they did it and they can demand any other assurances they want. It will not apply to other phones and the phone in question will remain in their possession.

What else do you need? It seems to me that 9/11 rocked America to it's roots and you have still not recovered the sense of the nation that you were and still are. All this talk of privacy is nonsense - we all accept that the government can and will listen into conversations if it thinks it necessary. What is at issue here is an attempt to listen into previous conversations of a known terrorist - they were not alone.

No, the problem is this country is probably polarized the way it was at the time of the Civil War. Many think the Govt is public enemy #1 and conspiracy theories rule. I mean, when a huge amount of folks believe the President is some muslim illegal alien who hijacked the election what more needs to be said.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

No, the problem is this country is probably polarized the way it was at the time of the Civil War. Many think the Govt is public enemy #1 and conspiracy theories rule. I mean, when a huge amount of folks believe the President is some muslim illegal alien who hijacked the election what more needs to be said.

This President and his administration have polarized the citizens!

"Never let good crisis go to waste" Rahm.

I'm truly sorry and didn't intend it to come out as shouting or opinionated, I was simply trying to emphasize those words, like I would be doing if we could be having a civil, verbal discussion of the topic. I can probably use italics in the future. I also want to emphasize that I'm not anti-government in any way. I love this country and have dozens of friends that are Police officers. I've helped coroners and Police officers collect evidence hundreds of times from deceased patients in the ER as well as from suspected criminals... From drunk drivers, to rapists, to drug dealers, the list goes on and on. When I've been called upon to then testify in court either about the evidence I helped collect or about things the suspect said while under my care I take it as a civic duty and go proudly, whereas coworkers try to get out of it and think of it as a hassle.

To answer your other question, no I don't think I'm overthinking this... It just has too much potential for disastrous consequences if it ends up in the wrong hands. Several of the scientists that helped make the atomic bomb regretted it later in life and stated they wished they hadn't done it, even though it helped stop WWII, it did it with the bloodshed of too many innocent lives. I fear that this software has the same potential to be used for evil and so does Tim Cook and Apple; they are directly and openly stating that they are refusing to create this for moral reasons and the FBI is forcing them to make something they are ethically opposed to: this is bullying and overreaching if anything is.

Data mining at it worst. Thank you Facebook and Google!

Originally Posted by 71L

,,,,,,,,,,,,,
To answer your other question, no I don't think I'm overthinking this... It just has too much potential for disastrous consequences if it ends up in the wrong hands. Several of the scientists that helped make the atomic bomb regretted it later in life and stated they wished they hadn't done it, even though it helped stop WWII, it did it with the bloodshed of too many innocent lives. I fear that this software has the same potential to be used for evil and so does Tim Cook and Apple; they are directly and openly stating that they are refusing to create this for moral reasons and the FBI is forcing them to make something they are ethically opposed to: this is bullying and overreaching if anything is.

I don't remember this,,,,may have happened,,,,,,, We, humans, tend to regret things we have done earlier, while reminiscing in the comfort of old age & the wisdom of hindsight. A benefit not often available at moment of decision.

One thing I do know,,,, none of the regretful scientists would have had family members hitting the beaches of mainland Japan.
Easily five times the number of lives would have been lost with the invasion of Japan.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

That is my understanding,, It was His county issued I-Phone

So yes it is the County Governments property, assuming the news reports were true

That's what has been reported. He and his wife apparently took care to destroy the hard drive of their computer and personal phones. May be they didn't bother with the work phone because it doesn't contain anything worth while, may be they were just sloppy and forgot about it.

I think this should not be a court fight, and instead should be decided properly by the congress. If the government should have the right to bypass any encryption then they need to legislate that and make it illegal to manufacture and distribute in US devices with so strong security. That's their job, but since it's a hard one with significant political costs either way they've been ignoring it very intentionally.

In the meanwhile employers who want to maintain access to the information on the work phones they provide to employees shouldn't be providing phones with such strong security. It's not like nobody knew about this - Apple publicized it quite a bit and now it's a top headline.

Again, place the accountability where it belongs and that's not with Apple, but with congress. Scapegoating Apple is plain wrong.

This makes me pose the question to any who feel that privacy is not to be protected, please send me your financial info so that I may take care of it for you. And if this is something you would not do the you don't think the same as you have stated. Everyone's privacy is sacred.
Again, terrorists should be dealt with all available means that is right. But the cost may be too high. Each day we give up more of our rights eventually we have none. We as citizens who have rights being taken away, but we give due process and rights to these people who are accused terrorists, it's a crazy world we live in, and my government doesn't seem to care about things like privacy, unless it's there privacy, or how this will affect us.

It's simple.

FBI turns phone over to apple, apple downloads entire phone to thumb drive, re-lock phone, turn over info (non-encrypted) on thumb drive and phone back to FBI.

This "big brother" wanting access to snoop all phones is bull.

More interesting info has come to light. Seems like they may have had access all along. Why oh why would they now be pursuing the current court request? Hmmmmmm........

Apple implies FBI screwup: iPhone Apple ID password changed in govt possession, backdoor unnecessary | 9to5Mac

Originally Posted by shooter74743

It's simple.

FBI turns phone over to apple, apple downloads entire phone to thumb drive, re-lock phone, turn over info (non-encrypted) on thumb drive and phone back to FBI.

This "big brother" wanting access to snoop all phones is bull.

Sorry, but sadly you are mistaken.

(Excerpted from a recent article on Bloomberg.com - Secret Memo Details U.S.’s Broader Strategy to Crack Phones - Bloomberg Business)

Silicon Valley celebrated last fall when the White House revealed it would not seek legislation forcing technology makers to install “backdoors” in their software -- secret listening posts where investigators could pierce the veil of secrecy on users’ encrypted data, from text messages to video chats. But while the companies may have thought that was the final word, in fact the government was working on a Plan B.

In a secret meeting convened by the White House around Thanksgiving, senior national security officials ordered agencies across the U.S. government to find ways to counter encryption software and gain access to the most heavily protected user data on the most secure consumer devices, including Apple Inc.’s iPhone, the marquee product of one of America’s most valuable companies, according to two people familiar with the decision.

The approach was formalized in a confidential National Security Council “decision memo,” tasking government agencies with developing encryption workarounds, estimating additional budgets and identifying laws that may need to be changed to counter what FBI Director James Comey calls the “going dark” problem: investigators being unable to access the contents of encrypted data stored on mobile devices or traveling across the Internet. Details of the memo reveal that, in private, the government was honing a sharper edge to its relationship with Silicon Valley alongside more public signs of rapprochement.

On Tuesday, the public got its first glimpse of what those efforts may look like when a federal judge ordered Apple to create a special tool for the FBI to bypass security protections on an iPhone 5c belonging to one of the shooters in the Dec. 2 terrorist attack in San Bernardino, California that killed 14 people. Apple Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook has vowed to fight the order, calling it a “chilling” demand that Apple “hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers.”