Thread: UK out of EU

Originally Posted by miller1952

I don't think I intimated the the USSR was a democracy, rather than it was an example of "experts" dictating policy. The fact that they could not grow enough food to feed themselves would, I should have thought, made my point. The fact that the British people voted to exit the EU is likely related to their desire for self-determination, rather than being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Britain has, in somewhat recent history been subjected to less than cordial treatment certain European powers, the summer of 1940 comes to mind. It is therefore understandable that some British people might desire a level of autonomy not tolerated by the EU. Certainly the ability to control one's borders is a prima facia right of any nation. The whole of Europe will be dealing with the consequences of their open border policies for the remainder of this century. If you doubt that, just wait and see. If that situation does not lead to significant civil unrest and violence, they may count themselves lucky indeed.

The EU might have been a workable idea if it was a trading zone involving independent countries. Instead it looks to me like a new mega country was created, all be it slowly, with member countries reduced in key areas where they formerly had autonomous jurisdiction such as immigration policy to the level of a state or province on this side of the pond. That extra layer of government above the nation governments is bound to create trouble and has in the case of Brexit.

Bob

Originally Posted by UKRob

This is what it is actually like in the EU - low price eastern European workers can flock to the wealthier countries claim welfare including for children still living in their home country.

That is an excellent point. Spain should deport the roughly 400,000 Britons living in Spain full time, exploiting Spain's health service. Make Costa del Sol liveable again!

Health tourists have cost UK tax payers roughly 6 billion in the last 8 years.

Economic constructs like the EU encompass countries of greatly differing standards of living. It may be good for business/trade but it plays havoc with countries that had a high standard of living for the middle class worker. It is a micro version of the "Global Economy" we are now in. That creates a lot of dissatisfaction in a large group of people.

At one time if a country's economy was doing OK it also meant that the middle class was doing alright too. That is no longer the case. I wonder how that happened?

Bob

I would have thought that such an important decision would have had to have had a minimum of a 75% agreement as opposed to the 50.01%.

I'm glad my home city voted to remain. The EU have done far more for Liverpool than successive Tory governments have in the last 40 years.

Having been born in Wales and spending much of my first five years there, I support the Nationalist movement. That said, I have my own thoughts on the vote but will remain silent for those with more at stake to voice their opinion, but, it's interesting to read the responses.

From my end, O'Bama, in spite of his Irish heritage, should keep his nose out of it. He's got enough troubles not leading his own country!

I well remember the first time we entered the European union under Edward Heath's tory Government, at the time the only talk was about a huge European free trade market which we all wanted, what they didn't say that you slowly but surely take total control of your country with their stupid liberal PC human rights we in the UK don't need human rights we are more than civilized to make our own judgments and laws without some brussels-bureaucrats telling us what we can or cannot do.

Originally Posted by RobinK

That is an excellent point. Spain should deport the roughly 400,000 Britons living in Spain full time, exploiting Spain's health service. Make Costa del Sol liveable again!

Not quite accurate Robin - there are reciprocal arrangements regarding the costs of health care. In fact those Britons living in Spain contribute to Spain's economy - they spend their money there and are not reliant on state welfare.

What I don't quite understand is your attitude to a decision that was taken by a majority of the British people for a future of self determination. My point about economic immigrants is just one of the issues but certainly not the only or most important one. I used it originally to point out the comparison to say, Mexicans, have an automatic right to live in the USA if a pan-American union existed.

Originally Posted by UKRob

What I don't quite understand is your attitude to a decision that was taken by a majority of the British people for a future of self determination.

First, it was a majority of voters, not the people. Second, it was England and Wales, not the UK.

Coming from a country that helped plunge Europe into world wars twice, I take a keen interest in retaining the institution that has been ensuring peace in Europe since 1945. A Tory government has damaged that institution for no reason but to try and solve a local problem with a bunch of racists even more right wing and delusional than they. Add to that Corbyn's failure to turn out the vote in Labour regions, and of course that spineless clown Johnson, and you have three toffs playing destiny with Europe in times of an acute crisis.

Last, and as stated previously, you cannot have a referendum over something as complex as the EU. The proverbial man on the Clapham bus simply does not understand how it works. Which leaves him approachable by racists, xenophobes, and fascists.

So, I hope that explains my attitude. I am appalled by the decision, but not surprised. It fits into a trend towards isolationism, and reactionary longing for a world that never really existed. This is 2016, and neither will make Mr Farage the UK white again, nor Me Trump the US. What they will do, as witnessed by the rise of UKIP, the Front National, and the love child of a Scottish woman and an orange haired orangutan, is make the world a more hostile, narrowminded, and dangerous place. Pathetic.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Last, and as stated previously, you cannot have a referendum over something as complex as the EU. The proverbial man on the Clapham bus simply does not understand how it works. Which leaves him approachable by racists, xenophobes, and fascists.

I'm surprised that the average citizen is held in such low esteem. Also a bit insulting, as I am just an average citizen myself!
In my opinion, today's average citizen is far more informed as far as what is good for himself and his family, than some elected official! It's high time for the majority to be heard and have their desires known and carried out than to be continually led like lambs to the slaughter. The rank and file is tired, and rightfully so, of their politicians, who are supposed to be in office to project the will of their constituents, making backroom deals and doing exactly as they please!

I'm happy seeing the "man on the Clapham bus" standing up and being heard in such a loud voice!

BRAVO