Thread: What Teachers Make

Trying my best to get this thread back on track, I have to say the education system in England suffers from many of the problems the American contributors desribed. I agree with pretty much everything said so far regarding the role of parents and the impotence of teachers.

The front page of my local paper, The Coventry Telegraph, today read: "Teachers' Strike: Thousands of Children Will Be hit".

I couldn't help thinking 'that's exactly what these kids need. Bring back corporal punishment' .

Originally Posted by Leofric

I couldn't help thinking 'that's exactly what these kids need. Bring back corporal punishment' .

When you say that I can't help but remember how my parents would tell me that if they would never ever tell their parents they got into trouble with the teacher because that would mean they'd get a second installment of pain.

Seriously, I don't get how parents are suddenly expecting schools to turn their children into upstanding citizens if they have no power to exercise what is needed to do so. Can't yell, can't hit, can't penalize, can't do squat.

Then you get these sad cases on Dr. Phil where a child is misbehaving, having sex, doing drugs and the parent just laments "Oh where did I go wrong?". And what do they do? They ship the kid off to be yelled at by some drill sergeant. Would have saved yourself a lot of pain, heartache and money if you had just done it yourself.

Originally Posted by ZiggyDeath

When you say that I can't help but remember how my parents would tell me that if they would never ever tell their parents they got into trouble with the teacher because that would mean they'd get a second installment of pain.

Seriously, I don't get how parents are suddenly expecting schools to turn their children into upstanding citizens if they have no power to exercise what is needed to do so. Can't yell, can't hit, can't penalize, can't do squat.

Then you get these sad cases on Dr. Phil where a child is misbehaving, having sex, doing drugs and the parent just laments "Oh where did I go wrong?".

Not using condoms? Just a thought.......

Originally Posted by Leofric

Trying my best to get this thread back on track, I have to say the education system in England suffers from many of the problems the American contributors desribed. I agree with pretty much everything said so far regarding the role of parents and the impotence of teachers.

The front page of my local paper, The Coventry Telegraph, today read: "Teachers' Strike: Thousands of Children Will Be hit".

I couldn't help thinking 'that's exactly what these kids need. Bring back corporal punishment' .

I'm a teacher, actually a I'm the director of bands for a private school. Kids respond to boundaries. I have very high expectations. It is very common for parents to come to me and ask how I get 85 kids in one room to be absolutely focused and on task. Well, corporal punishment has its place, however; I feel that kids will comply when parents do hold to expectations and enforce parameters. That is discipline, punishment is to persuade and convince kids to alter their behavior. It is best if the parents show them what correct behavior is. I have noticed that parents who are very involved with their kids and spend time, a lot of time, with their kids tend to have happier and better behaved kids. I invest in kids lives. They know I care, and I care what they feel and think. I also listen. They also know that when they are wrong I let them know. They have also heard me admit I've made mistakes. They know if they do as I do, they are on safe ground. They also hear me give them credit and praise when they rightfully earn it. That's how I get 85 kids on a hot August afternoon in Texas to do marching drills, again and again and again. They have tremendous pride when they best all the public schools in our division. They know what it took. Yes, I make a difference. That's one reason I have a number of kids that become teachers and band directors. They see that I make a difference they want to also. I often mentor my alumni through college and in their first jobs. If I didn't have a retirement pension from the Army I couldn't afford to teach. Getting a phone call from an alumni on some evening and they want to say again thank you for all I did for them and showed them how to live, show me a pay check that even comes close to this.

Originally Posted by Kenrup

I'm a teacher, actually a I'm the director of bands for a private school. Kids respond to boundaries. I have very high expectations. It is very common for parents to come to me and ask how I get 85 kids in one room to be absolutely focused and on task. Well, corporal punishment has its place, however; I feel that kids will comply when parents do hold to expectations and enforce parameters. That is discipline, punishment is to persuade and convince kids to alter their behavior. It is best if the parents show them what correct behavior is. I have noticed that parents who are very involved with their kids and spend time, a lot of time, with their kids tend to have happier and better behaved kids. I invest in kids lives. They know I care, and I care what they feel and think. I also listen. They also know that when they are wrong I let them know. They have also heard me admit I've made mistakes. They know if they do as I do, they are on safe ground. They also hear me give them credit and praise when they rightfully earn it. That's how I get 85 kids on a hot August afternoon in Texas to do marching drills, again and again and again. They have tremendous pride when they best all the public schools in our division. They know what it took. Yes, I make a difference. That's one reason I have a number of kids that become teachers and band directors. They see that I make a difference they want to also. I often mentor my alumni through college and in their first jobs. If I didn't have a retirement pension from the Army I couldn't afford to teach. Getting a phone call from an alumni on some evening and they want to say again thank you for all I did for them and showed them how to live, show me a pay check that even comes close to this.

I haven't really been following this thread, but I must say Kenrup that I admire your attitude!

When I see or hear of teachers striking, it clearly shows where their heart is! Not with the student, thats for certain!

Originally Posted by Kenrup

If I didn't have a retirement pension from the Army I couldn't afford to teach. Getting a phone call from an alumni on some evening and they want to say again thank you for all I did for them and showed them how to live, show me a pay check that even comes close to this.

Thanks, kenrup. I get you. That teachers, who are one of the most precious resources society has and who are grossly underpaid to the point that they can't afford to do the job UNLESS they have a pension are reviled for striking to get a living wage, is a tragedy. Let's rip a little cash from the corporates to get kids the best education. Who's with me!?

X

Originally Posted by xman

Thanks, kenrup. I get you. That teachers, who are one of the most precious resources society has and who are grossly underpaid to the point that they can't afford to do the job UNLESS they have a pension are reviled for striking to get a living wage, is a tragedy. Let's rip a little cash from the corporates to get kids the best education. Who's with me!?

X

Not I!!

I have no problems with teachers who do a top notch job making good money, in fact I am all for it, just not in the way you suggest!

Hey if you think teachers are under paid you should see Catholic school teachers. My wife would make more selling hotdogs from a street cart. She works very hard teaching these little monsters(my opinion not hers) and dealing with over indulgent parents. They need a living wage.

One thing I love about some of our countries is that as good as the systems are, the flaws and cracks and issues are regularly exposed and protested and complained about. Sometimes there seem to be poor arguments and bad comparisons made, but the fact that people are voicing concerns is wonderful.

I'm a passionate educator in Asia and really wish that there was even a fraction of the public dissatisfaction with the system here that there is in the states. Although schools here often do push for high test scores, they often do so by compromising everything else. Most students here cannot even begin to write an essay, or engage in a real debate, or participate in any academic endeavor requiring the Socratic method or any dynamic, creative process. They can only take multiple choice tests and copy the works of others, and are often found incompetent in their specialized field despite extremely high test scores. Plagiarism is rampant with students from here who go abroad to study.

There are some very very serious issues, but public acknowledgment is virtually non-existent and judgment of teachers is quite fickle...in my particular sector of the market (private adult education), we teachers are forced to compete in popularity contests, generally sacrificing the quality of training/education in the process (our job is to sell seats). If our students like us and come to our classes, we get paid. If not, we lose our classes, and sometimes our jobs.

And don't even get me started on the state of "English teaching" for children in Asia...ugh...

Originally Posted by rtaylor61

There was a time when being a teacher was highly respectable. Not anymore. Today's teachers are underpaid. Never mind that they have summer off. Dedicated teachers spend part of that time increasing their own education. Dedicated teachers spend 12-14 hours per day during the school year organizing their lesson plan and grading papers and projects. And with budget cuts, they spend their own money for items to be used in the classroom. They are supposed to educate our young, yet they are not allowed to discipline the unruly or keep control in their own classroom. Parents don't spend time working with their kids at home, and professional athletes make more in one or two weeks than a teacher makes in a year. The quality of teachers is falling. I can't imagine why.

RT

This post reminded me of a funny life-experience anecdote ...

I used to tutor math when I was in college. The majority of tutor-ees came from a local college that was known for their education major. Every single one that was an edcuation major would say the same line to me: " I just need this class to graduate. It's not like I am going to use it."

I would just shake my head and re-iterate the question 'you are an education major, right? Dont you think you might need to know this material?'

Blank looks were in abundance after that one.

btw ... I tutored Algebra to these people... for $75/hour.


Just thought I'd share.