Thread: Firearms and you: wotcha got?

Originally Posted by mhailey

Your point is valid, and our constitution can be changed in two ways. By a Constitutional Convention of the states, and through a 2/3 majority of the legislature, that is both house and senate. If this occurs then they could remove the 2nd amendment. However, I do not feel that this would change the right to own a gun. The 9th amendment specifically states

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

This means that simply because a right is not enumerated, does not automatically mean that the government has the right to infringe upon it. It would also follow, that if there was a right enumerated (i.e. the 2nd amendment), then removing the specific enumeration does not automatically grant to government the right to infringe upon it. if the 2nd amendment is removed, I feel that an additional amendment would have to be introduced to grant the Government the power to infringe upon this right. This is what I meant by my statement that the people tell the government just how much power it will, and will not, have.

Ok they might scratch the 2nd amendement, but if they add another one specificaly to ban firearms then it would be illegal for you to have them?

Originally Posted by mhailey

Also, how is a militia not useful? You say that shooting at the military with a rifle would be futile, given the advanced weaponry possessed by the military. The people of Afghanistan did just that when the Soviets invaded, and they beat them back, all be it with our help through the provision of Stinger missiles. If they did not have their guns, there would have been no opportunity for us to help them. Further, if the populace is familiar with firearms, then all the better for the military when it comes time to defend the country. Shorter training for the recruits/draftees and they would tend to make better soldiers.

Afghanistan is a bit diferent. The locals had intimate knowledge of the terrain that the sovjets (and the US now) did not have. On top of that they were accustomed to the inhospitable climate.
And the afghan tribes were used to decades of internal wars.
All these things are the other way around for the US army on US soil.

Originally Posted by mhailey

Like I said, America was founded upon the gun, and the Revolution was started when the British attempted to seize the guns held by the colonies. See the battle of concord. Europe was not founded upon the gun, and I feel there is a completely different sense of personal freedom felt by Americans than Europeans. IMHO. Americans tend to want government out of their life, so that they can pursue their dreams. Europeans want government in their lives so they don't have to worry about certain issues, and they can relax. (see the prevalence of socialism in Europe)

You completely nailed this one. Europe is old. European countries have been at war and occupying each other since before the romans conquered europe.
We have lived by the axe, the sword (bronze and steel), the bow, and the gun. It didn't work. The country that is now Belgium has been occupied by the Dutch, the French, the Germans, the Spanish and several others.

Now we have had peace for 60 years after it became obvious in '45 that the next international war would destroy us all. Instead we now have diplomats fighting buraucratic wars with papers, memos and whatever. So far it seems to work, and a unified europe with semi independent countries is the way forward imo.

Bruno,

If such an amended were to pass, then yes the ownership of firearms would be illegal. The same thing happened durring prohibition when the manufacture and sale of alcohol was made illegal.

IMHO, Europe is now moving toward what America is. In the US we have the people which delegated to the states the right to govern them. The states, in turn, have delegated part of their power to the Federal Government, to oversee the National issues. The states would be considered countries in and of themselves, (and some actually were like Texas, Vermont, ...) but for the Federal Government. Europe is moving toward each current country being a "state" and the EU as the Federal Govermnet. I'm gald Ya All saw the light. (you know I jest). When europe gets this EU thing together, you will be a power house to reckon with, but you just have to get along to do it.

Oh, btw, the topic of this thread

1 S&W 9mm handgun
1 Winchester 12 gauge pump
1 Beretta AL390 12 guage

I am looking to get a Sig 40 cal.

Oh yes, to the topic of this thread: I don't have a gun, but I do have a bow.

I have shot compressed air pistol and compressed air rifle(4.5 mm pellets) when I was younger. The pistols and rifle were of the kind where you compress the air with a lever.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Oh yes, to the topic of this thread: I don't have a gun, but I do have a bow.

I have shot compressed air pistol and compressed air rifle(4.5 mm pellets) when I was younger. The pistols and rifle were of the kind where you compress the air with a lever.

When I was a kid (teenager), my brother-in-law who was a trapper, hunter,etc gave me a magazine from Europe (I think Germany) with just air rifles --very nice air rifles. I remember him talking about how powerful they were and how it was a way for Europeans to try to get around the gun laws. I think they had a .22 cal. limit and were of the crack barrel type that can be bought more easily these days. At the time I was use to the multiple pump air rifles by Daisy, Benjamin, Crossman, Sheridan, etc. Some had 1200+ fps ratings --- I thought that was pretty cool back in the day. Anyway, just jacking my jaw,

Justin

Originally Posted by Tobico4

The good stuff:

.40 flintlock Ohio style squirrel rifle
.50 flintlock Lacaster style longrifle
.62 flintlock Jaeger stlye short rifle
20 ga flintlock single barrel "trade gun"
12 ga flintlock double barrel upland game gun

The "transisterized" (modern cartridge) stuff:

half dozen pistols
dozen rifles and shotguns

Oh ya, the good stuff

.36 perc, squirrel
.45 perc, kentuckian
.50 perc, TC Hawken
.44 perc Walker

Love the smokey stuff

Originally Posted by mhailey

Bruno,
Europe is moving toward each current country being a "state" and the EU as the Federal Govermnet. I'm gald Ya All saw the light. (you know I jest). When europe gets this EU thing together, you will be a power house to reckon with, but you just have to get along to do it.

I don't think they'll have much luck getting the British people to agree to devolve any significant power to the EU unless the mps just ignore the peoples wishes and go ahead with it any time soon.
They'll have to prise my Britishness and independence from my cold dead hands to paraphrase your exNRA president and bring this back on topic a little.

I'm not even English, but I'd drink to that

Originally Posted by murph

I don't think they'll have much luck getting the British people to agree to devolve any significant power to the EU unless the mps just ignore the peoples wishes and go ahead with it any time soon.
They'll have to prise my Britishness and independence from my cold dead hands to paraphrase your exNRA president and bring this back on topic a little.

Somehow I appreciate this additude --well not somehow -- just plain and simply I dig it. What do I know but I hate to see individual countries in Europe lose their identity for a more collective approach -- but maybe most Europeans don't mind?

Justin

Anyone ever shoot a .454 Casull ?--- just wondering.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUKyJHWvAww