Thread: Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

Originally Posted by Seraphim

i.e-Satan made an appeal to Eve's intellect to get her to disobey God,and thus the Fall.

God gave you a mind and an intellect. He also gave you a heart. Perhaps the mind isn't the best tool for knowing God?

And this is a very dangerous implication, that somehow one's intellect is Satanic, rooted in evil or a tool used by evil forces.

The Egyptian god Thoth was the god of learning and of the moon. The polytheistic religions seemed fine with letting people use their heads. Why should the JCIG crowd discourage it? Well, we do know that ignorant masses are easier to control.

jockeys, why do you think Enki is so cool? I don't know anything about him or any of the Sumerian gods.

X

Originally Posted by xman

And this is a very dangerous implication, that somehow one's intellect is Satanic, rooted in evil or a tool used by evil forces.

The Egyptian god Thoth was the god of learning and of the moon. The polytheistic religions seemed fine with letting people use their heads. Why should the JCIG crowd discourage it? Well, we do know that ignorant masses are easier to control.

jockeys, why do you think Enki is so cool? I don't know anything about him or any of the Sumerian gods.

X

I'm not implying that the intellect in itself is evil by any means. The way in which it is directed can possibly be either beneficial or not.

What I was getting at with the comment about perhaps the mind not being the best tool for the job is taken from a C.S. lewis quote that compares the mind to a powerful microscope, capable of probing the innermost details of things. Truly a remarkable and powerful instrument! Yet, you cannot use a microscope, no matter how powerful to look at the stars. It is simply the wrong tool for the job.

What's the focal range on the microscope? And who said the lenses aren't interchangeable?

But seriously, can you really "know" that the things you've experienced are the one true god? I mean, what absolutely bans the possibility of an impostor or tempter from posing as a beneficial God-like spiritual force, and providing all of the things you've experienced, while the real God sits back, silent against a spiritual back drop, and breaths a sigh of despair?

Since we can't "know" these things, what's the point in being devoted to a denomination? There are countless people throughout history that produce nearly the exact sentences that have been presented here as proof of the Judeo-Christian god, but as proof of their own take on the supernatural (which ranges from somewhat reasonable to outright insanity).

"If God created man is his image, man has more than reciprocated."
-Voltaire

I meant to mention also John Ralston Saul's excellent book On Equilibrium. In it he argues that the qualities through which we can know the natural world are six: common sense, ethics, imagination, intuition, memory and reason. Earlier philosophers have isolated their own qualities.

Baby on my lap, can't go into detls. HELP!

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

What's the focal range on the microscope? And who said the lenses aren't interchangeable?

But seriously, can you really "know" that the things you've experienced are the one true god? I mean, what absolutely bans the possibility of an impostor or tempter from posing as a beneficial God-like spiritual force, and providing all of the things you've experienced, while the real God sits back, silent against a spiritual back drop, and breaths a sigh of despair?

Since we can't "know" these things, what's the point in being devoted to a denomination? There are countless people throughout history that produce nearly the exact sentences that have been presented here as proof of the Judeo-Christian, but as proof of their own take on the supernatural (which ranges from somewhat reasonable to outright insanity).

Interesting question! If you just reach your thought process a little farther you might come up with the idea that those same forces may also be clouding your vision and directing your thoughts! I guess, as everything else, it still comes down to what you are willing to believe, in other words, faith!!

Originally Posted by xman

And this is a very dangerous implication, that somehow one's intellect is Satanic, rooted in evil or a tool used by evil forces.



X

I don't think that's the implication at all! I think the implication is that ones thinking be subject only to God so that all things can be seen clearly!
If you are not a servant to one you are a slave to the other!

Little Man is asleep in the sling right now. I'd put him down, but babies are like Dragons and Giants, they must frequently be mollified and when they are sleeping ... you let them sleep.

So, if I remember properly;
Common sense is what keeps you from falling off a cliff or letting a ball hit you in the head.
Ethics are those things which are accepted as goo or bad deeds.
Imagination is what might be.
Intuition are those thing organisms seem to know instinctively. An example JRS uses is that it takes seven generations for Monarch butterflies to complete their annual migration to the north and then return south to Mexico to roost on the same trees their great-great-great-great Grandparents did. They can't know this.
Reason is our intellect.

Now Little Man squirms. He will wake soon to be fed.

X

I really like this thread! I wonder who started it?

Mark,

Exactly, none of us can know the supernatural, and if it is such a hazy abyss of possibilities, it's futile to speak in concrete terms about it. Some of us just go one step further and say that the idea of infinite unknowable possibilities can't be what an infallible creator wanted, and thus, is more likely to be a manifestation of the unconscious mind's uncertainty, an anthropomorphism of it's own take on reality, right/wrong, and purpose.

And, in general, that manifestation is conveniently colored by a person's geographic/temporal existence. When was the last time you met a modern person worshiping at the shrine of Athena or painting on the walls of their house in homage to the Bear spirit? Yet, those were very real deities for people in antiquity or archaity (made up word? I kinda like it either way).

I just want to make sure these are questions that cross y'all's minds, as they've really been a crux for me.

X,

Sounds like a good book, I'll have to check it out sometime. I'm reading a nice work by your fellow countryman, Joseph C. McClelland: "Prometheus Rebound". It (so far) chronicles the similarities between the Promethean rebellion, modern Atheism, and Christ-like suffering; an interesting take on the various religious metaphors of history and shows how similar we all are with respect to differing religious conventions. Can't wait to finish it.

Originally Posted by xman

jockeys, why do you think Enki is so cool? I don't know anything about him or any of the Sumerian gods.
X

He was the Sumerian god of knowledge, more specifically the god of how things were done. During one of his stories, he gave man the gift of a list of steps for accomplishing certain tasks that were too complicated to be done by a single man. In a sense, Enki is the first entity in recorded history to have made a flowchart, or algorithm. He is thusly considered the patron deity of programmers and engineers.

These things are covered in reasonably accurate (although not wholly) detail in the novel "Snow Crash".

Originally Posted by jockeys

He was the Sumerian god of knowledge, more specifically the god of how things were done. During one of his stories, he gave man the gift of a list of steps for accomplishing certain tasks that were too complicated to be done by a single man. In a sense, Enki is the first entity in recorded history to have made a flowchart, or algorithm. He is thusly considered the patron deity of programmers and engineers.

These things are covered in reasonably accurate (although not wholly) detail in the novel "Snow Crash".

From an ancient tablet found among the ruins....Enki's flowchart?