Thread: The Ukraine Situation

When I was in the British Army (Chieftain Tank Driver) we attended a lot of Russian tactics and vehicle recognition sort of lectures because it was the cold war still.

A couple of things that always stuck with me, Russian tanks (T72 at the time) do not have a stabilized main armament so they had to stop to fire, and aren't very accurate because of the bouncing around the non stabilized gun is subjected to.

They had one piece ammunition so they had to throw the shell cases out often.

They carried big drums of extra diesel on the back.

Only the troop leaders tank has a radio and a map, the others used semaphore flags to communicate with him and if the troop leaders tank was destroyed, the rest of the tanks in the troop had no maps or radio.

Things may have changed since the 80's but from what we've seen on telly, they haven't improved much - still a huge crap army.

Originally Posted by STF

When I was in the British Army (Chieftain Tank Driver) we attended a lot of Russian tactics and vehicle recognition sort of lectures because it was the cold war still.

A couple of things that always stuck with me, Russian tanks (T72 at the time) do not have a stabilized main armament so they had to stop to fire, and aren't very accurate because of the bouncing around the non stabilized gun is subjected to.

They had one piece ammunition so they had to throw the shell cases out often.

They carried big drums of extra diesel on the back.

Only the troop leaders tank has a radio and a map, the others used semaphore flags to communicate with him and if the troop leaders tank was destroyed, the rest of the tanks in the troop had no maps or radio.

Things may have changed since the 80's but from what we've seen on telly, they haven't improved much - still a huge crap army.

Keep in mind that huge crap army defeated the Germans who had technically superior weapons such as tanks with radios and throat mikes to communicate on a radio net or internally. All boiled down to the old saying "quantity has a quality all it's own" supposedly said by Stalin during WWII.

Speaking of tanks. A friend of mine used to say that he was in the army when Centurion was a rank not a tank. Yea, before Canada got the Leopards. Just thought to throw in a little humour to lighten thing up.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Keep in mind that huge crap army defeated the Germans who had technically superior weapons such as tanks with radios and throat mikes to communicate on a radio net or internally. All boiled down to the old saying "quantity has a quality all it's own" supposedly said by Stalin during WWII.

Speaking of tanks. A friend of mine used to say that he was in the army when Centurion was a rank not a tank. Yea, before Canada got the Leopards. Just thought to throw in a little humour to lighten thing up.

Bob

Yes, the Russians did defeat Germany in the War, but Germany was fighting on two fronts and was struggling, in fact the Germans fought in a Siberian winter with only summer clothes and rations. A lot froze to death, guns froze and with the Russian scorched earth strategy, the Germans were on a hiding to nothing imo.

As you bring up the Canadian army using Leopards.
I actually only learned of that quite recently and I have to say that it sounds dangerous.
The Canadians should make their own tanks, it wouldn't be a lot more expensive than buying them and transporting them and staying supplied with spares etc. every other western country does.

I also wonder how wise it is to rely on another country for your main battle tank. What if Canada and Germany ever fell out, I know what your thinking but never say never.

It was the Russian Winter that really defeated the Germans like it defeated Napoleon.

I wonder what Volodymyr Zelensky's hidden agenda is here? I would not trust him either.....

Yes, the Russian winter had a great deal to do with the defeat of Germany which underscored the German defects in their technically superior weapons and their supply system being unprepared for winter warfare. Too fine tolerances and the use of unsuitable lubricants will get you into trouble every time in harsh winter conditions. The Russians to a great extent knew how to get around those problems. Add to that, the Germans were dumb enough to think a two front war was possible for them to win.

Canada does not currently build Main Battle Tanks, MBTs, but has in the past done so in WWII. Canada does build the LAV since 1970 with the introduction of the first model. The plant is located in London Ontario. They have also supplied LAVs to the US. Rifles and other weapons have/are made in Canada under licence. There is quite a bit of military equipment made in Canada for our armed forces under licencing agreements.

Oddly enough Leica built a plant in Canada at Midland Ontario in 1952 just in case Germany was overrun should the Russians attack during the cold war. It is still operating, Ernst Leitz Canada (ELCAN), having changed ownership a few time along the way. IIRC it is now part of Raytheon an American defence contractor. As you would expect their optics among other things are very good.

Bob

Don't forget Marathon Watch Co. Since 1904 located in Montreal and supplying military watches to the U.S and Canada. These days "Designed in Canada and made in Switzerland".

Also Cluny MacPherson who invented the Gas Mask.

Originally Posted by Johntoad57

I wonder what Volodymyr Zelensky's hidden agenda is here? I would not trust him either.....

Russia invaded Ukraine so it is hard for me to imagine that Zelenskyy has any other agenda than repelling the Russians.

Bob

Originally Posted by Johntoad57

I wonder what Volodymyr Zelensky's hidden agenda is here? I would not trust him either.....

Originally Posted by BobH

Russia invaded Ukraine so it is hard for me to imagine that Zelenskyy has any other agenda than repelling the Russians.

The first item on every politician's agenda is keeping their job. Everything else is subservient to that goal. If that means "repelling the Russians," than so be it (although even if they can, it's not without a heavy price already paid -- one that could/should have been avoided by negotiating with Russia based on realpolitik, but that ship has sailed).

Originally Posted by JBHoren

The first item on every politician's agenda is keeping their job. Everything else is subservient to that goal. If that means "repelling the Russians," than so be it (although even if they can, it's not without a heavy price already paid -- one that could/should have been avoided by negotiating with Russia based on realpolitik, but that ship has sailed).

Realpolitik requires the abandonment of ethics/morals in divining a diplomatic solution. I'm not so sure that would be a good idea.

Bob