Not to long ago nothing poliitical was allowed here????
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Not to long ago nothing poliitical was allowed here????
It always was on this forum only.
All I'm going to say about our fearless leader is if you guys take the blinders off and go back decades and read his history, his family, his father and grandfather...well it's all there. But just keep the blinders on and accept what you're told to accept.
I'll stick my neck out here and say two years or so from now lets revisit this conversation and see if you all still feel the same.
History has a way of proving itself out. Take two cases for instance: Kennedy (since you want to bring up family history) whom the media loved but who history proved was a womanizer a drug addict and militarily a wreckless failure who gave us the Cuban Missile Crisis, The Bay Of Pigs and Vietnam.
Then on the other hand Reagan who the media loathed with every fiber of their being but who history proved to be a solid family man, a shrewd economic visionary and strategist, and an able diplomat that culivated alliances that brought down the Soviet communist block .
Both had the media grossly misread them and history correct their image. Lesson being forget what the media says and look at the record.
So I was just reading on one of my National Security Feeds
I had to read it twice
The UK can only Field 25 Battle Ready Challenger 2 Tanks if called to do so NOW maybe 59 within 2 Months if you look at the stats right now it shows 227 but according to what I am reading they are not battle ready, Much of this is due to the Covid polices hurting industry..
They just bought Swedish Artillery because their systems need maintenance so badly
To my Brit friends I am NOT singling you out, it was just what crossed on my feed today I would be willing to bet many of the NATO countries are in the same position.
Thank You Nelson for proving me right about the TDS
Isn't it funny how everyone who doesn't think much of Trump has TDS? I seem to recall when there was a Democratic president and folks on this site were saying "He's not my President". Did we say they had some sort of derangement syndrome?
My, how things change under Trump.
Alright I admit that when on of my team knocks the other team's skater down he needs to get his crybaby ass up and get over it but when one of their players knocks one of our skaters down that joker needs to go to the box. I've said it before and I admit it. In fairness though, I don't think the two compare here. Once again, look at the record, the media assaults, the lawfare the childish behavior of Congress in joint session, the Hollyweird meltdown...apples to oranges babe.
The current situation with the direction of the US government is going is already having an effect.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...1b169e79&ei=65
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f35...rump-1.7484477
Bob
Could somebody get that? The record is skipping.
Canada -
Well facts kinda suck
Since 2014 when the 2% for NATO was put into effect Canada has NEVER paid it
They don't expect to get their until 2030 maybe 2032
So while some want to talk about what the US should do perhaps Canada might want to Pay Up, the rest of NATO isn't to happy either..
It is being called the "Canada Problem" the one country in NATO that spends near nothing for defense because they stand under the US umbrella
Or as Trump says: "You don't have the cards" they are at 1.37% right now
Neither party is addressing it right now either
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...tment-00166648
https://www.heritage.org/defense/com...canada-problem
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nat...tegy-1.7333798
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nat...aine-1.7162757
[QUOTE=gssixgun;1988473]Canada -
Well facts kinda suck
Since 2014 when the 2% for NATO was put into effect Canada has NEVER paid it
They don't expect to get their until 2030 maybe 2032
So while some want to talk about what the US should do perhaps Canada might want to Pay Up, the rest of NATO isn't to happy either..
It is being called the "Canada Problem" the one country in NATO that spends near nothing for defense because they stand under the US umbrella
Or as Trump says: "You don't have the cards" they are at 1.37% right now
Neither party is addressing it right now either
To begin with Canada is under funding its military and has been for a while. On that point you are correct. The 2% of GDP was not a written contract but merely a consensus on how much should be spent on military spending. Canada is also not the only country in NATO that is spending less that 2% of GDP on the military. Personally, I think Canada should be spending more its military.
None of the forgoing has much bearing on whether the countries in NATO see the US as a reliable ally. That is a different problem that is now showing in how NATO is reacting to the current trend in what is perceived to be happening in the US politically.
Bob
No Trump told NATO already Bob there is no ambiguity any longer
We will NOT be paying your way, was that confusing to Canada ??? it shouldn't have been he Pulled Trudeau aside 6 years ago asked when are you going to pay ??
NATO is asking too
Yes I already gave you the stats on the deadbeats did you ignore it ?
Canada is in a unique situation unlike the rest of NATO it has taken advantage of that for years along with your Tariffs on US products
For the next 3+ years it isn't going to go well
Complain all you want, the bill is coming due, until then as those articles imply "You just don't have the cards"
Whataboutism: "To begin with Canada is under funding its military and has been for a while. On that point you are correct. The 2% of GDP was not a written contract but merely a consensus on how much should be spent on military spending. Canada is also not the only country in NATO that is spending less that 2% of GDP on the military. Personally, I think Canada should be spending more its military"
Classic
Glen, I guess then the only thing that we are in agreement on is that "For the next 3+ years it isn't going to go well".
Bob
Just think, during and after WWll if the U.S said well it ain't our war it's Europe's problem. Cash on the barrelhead if you want our military supplies and troops. The Marshal Plan? Dream on. Rebuild Japan? They deserve what they got leave em to the wolves until they pay us Billions and Billions and maybe they need to turn over a good chunk of their land to us forever.
Just think what the world would look like today.
To my point from earlier. Somehow Canada won't pull its weight but Trump is to blame? Other countries aren't either so don't blame us? Are you guys listening to yourselves? It reminds me of the people living in the projects in a rage badmouthing the government for cutting back on the welfare checks (real story by the way,) the sheer audacity is just unbelievable
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
And look at just what all that good will got us :nono:
America First Now, thanks for reminding us all about how much we have GIVEN away, and just how much good it did us...
One of the reasons we did rebuild Japan was the history of treating Germany like Cr*p and the reparations and more which built bad blood and is one of the reasons their economy tanked pissed off much of the population and a certain man with a funny mustache was able to take power and contributed to WWll.
Just something to keep in mind when we go full isolationist and leave Ukraine to Putin and let him rampage through Eastern Europe. I mean Europe ain't our problem-cash on the barrelhead.
Yeah, nice story but that notwithstanding, it would just be nice if the other member states (ESPECIALLY European countries) were as concerned about their own security as we have been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Soooooo Trump should NOT follow in Obama and Bidementia's foot steps
Yeah I don't see that as a problem
Sounds you forgot Trump had none of this his first term...
Looks like the Bill is coming Due for Ukraine too.
REM Deal is moving forward so the US might get paid back something anyway
Seems like both sides want to fight a bit longer
Hopefully some fool US leader in the future doesnt sell our stake for a dollar.
Yea from now on any time some country needs our help we extract our pound of flesh from them.
Let's see Haiti need some help? Maybe just give us all of your Aluminum Ore forever. Maybe that island with the seals on it needs help we'll make em take their skins off and give them to us.
I can just see our fearless leader with a sealskin coat on.
YES !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
In exchange for american lives and treasure absolutely...
Heck, why stop there? The next time a Hurricane trashes Galveston they come and pull up all the sand and use it for whatever in exchange for low interest loans and food and water. Maybe when the fires sweep L.A again well forget it L.A has nothing we want right? Maybe when some catastrophe hits your part of Idaho they can come and Impress all the men like the British used to do and you can be part of the Impress gang swabbing decks on some Navy Ship right? Sounds great to me. I'll bet you would look great in uniform Glen.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
In the case of the Ukraine, the American military has not been directly involved in fighting the Russians, so no lives lost. Ukraine still keeps the resources under their control and there is no stipulation that the Ukraine is to repay the aid the US has already sent them since the war started. It is a 10-year agreement to share in the development of new resources the US may need on a 50/50 basis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDwcKc8tOSo&t=52s
How the US deals with other countries in the future that are in a similar situation as the Ukraine remains to be seen.
Bob
The left always talking about What If'sQuote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
So BobQuote:
Originally Posted by BobH
That the EU writes in a pay back stipulation into their aid is Okay But not the US ??
BTW I like that Canada is all in at 2% of the total given, once again you have a whole lotta opinions on what the US should do, but I don't see much of anything from the neighbors to the North other than talk..
So I guess we know how Canada deals with other countries now don't we..
So GlenQuote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
the EU has always had at times repayment for certain aid given to the Ukraine in contractual form before the aid was given. They did not, as the US initially said to the Ukraine after the fact, we want control of your natural resources for our sole use plus payback for what the US had already given in aid. Turns out that the agreement that was finally signed was similar to EU agreements and did not contain a payback clause for previously given aid. I have no objections to what was finally signed as it is in line with EU agreements.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegatio...llars_en?s=253
Similar to other countries, we have given what we can. You are free to lookup the actual amount given and if there are any payback clauses.
Bob
Let's all snap out of the dillusion that any country or any leader does anything out of the kindness of their heart or for that matter that they should. My Dad used to say, "$#!¥ in one hand, wish in the other and see which gets full quicker." We can talk about good will and brotherly love all we want, hell we can all hold hands and sing kum ba ya but the reality is there is no such thing as a selfless act. The sooner we are honest and admit that to ourselves the better off we will be.
Libs and their self appointed moral highground tickle me.
Any citizen of any country is free to donate all their property to the cause of their choosing. If they do i will say good for.you but keep.your hands out of my pocket.
Now THAT gets an amen!
Well there is always some reason to do some good. That's the problem with you guys. You always looking for the payout, what's in it for me.
After WWll we pretty much rebuilt Europe and Japan. What did we get out of that? I guess around 80 years or so of world order and no world wars. Like I've said before, you treat your vanquished enemy like dirt and all they can think about is revenge. That's why we got WWll after WWl.
As far as what ifs go I guess it is preferred to a head of state who lies out his eye teeth at the drop of a hat.
You donated 2% of the total I already told you that, Again you have no cards to be talking about what the USA should do until Canada steps upQuote:
Originally Posted by BobH
WE ??? We didn't do any such thing, you keep repeating yourself and recalling failed policies of the pastQuote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Sorry you feel that way to bad so sad but Trump did not get the US into this war,, Obama and Biden did Trump is getting us OUT and getting our money back or at least a shot at it
What do you propose, sit back keep throwing more money at it AGAIN ??? What a joke..
https://www.heritage.org/global-poli...it-was-mistake
Biden at his best
Nelson ???? "invented histories, and riffing on what may or may not happen." Hmmmm same as Biden
But isn't that what you guys do all the time "Kick the can"
No, the problem with you guys is you're not honest about your motives.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Yes we rebuilt Europe and Japan. Yes it was the right thing to do. And yes we got our money back. There's nothing wrong with admitting your motives. Unlike FDR who lied to the Americsn people about our involvement we didn't want. Then just happened to be looking the other way when an attack was eminent. God bless Harry Truman, probably the last conservative democrat, for having the stones to finish the job. History indeed repeats itself. Libs got us into Vietnam under false pretenses then lied about their reasons for keeping us there then it took Nixon to get us out. Once again, libs create problems, the grown ups have to come along and fix.it.
Ay caramba. Talk about dredging up old conspiracy theories. Yes the U.S had broken the Japanese Code and knew an attack was imminent but the Japanese weren't that dumb. They left out certain particulars in their communications so we didn't know where the attack was going to be. There were several possible targets.
Bringing up Tricky Dick eh? That's fitting considering he should fit right in with our current fearless leader. Yea Nixon got us out of the war with HONOR. I remember coming home and being smart enough not to wear the uniform cause those that did were ridiculed and worse.
Well you can't make chicken salad out of chicken manure. If you can't finish it don't start it. We should never have benn in it if we weren't going to win. And as far as conspiracies, it's funny how when your side says it it it's the gospel when the other side says it it's a conspiracy.
Since Jan 2009 Conspiracy Theories were changed to "Spoiler Alerts" do you seriously want to go there ???
We have lists of them that were proved true, or as the Social Media Meme says "I think you need another shot your last one wore off"
I have noted that "You Guys" have offered no solution other than "Keep the money flowing and keep the war going" you would almost think that there is an advantage to doing so for the Leftist Global Cabal oh wait is that a Conspiracy Theory too ?? :rofl2::hmmm:
Just thought of the FACT that is was your fellow lefty communist loving College Students doing the ridiculing or worse.. Guess you forgot that part eh
Also remember when Biden got us out of Afghanistan ??? With Honor
If you guys didn't have double standards you would have no standards
I can do this all day
What aboutism is easier for us on the right than you on the left,, we have way more hypocrisy to use against you
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
So have you thought about a solution or shall we hurl more insults ???
You guys seem to forget trump negotiated the pull out and to a great extent Biden's hands were tied. I agree he screwed it up but had he been able to undo the massive Trump screwup things might have turned out better.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
