Thread: The purpose of government

Originally Posted by majurey

Only if you lived in a state with closed borders which forbad you from emigrating, then yes, the state truly owns you and you have no choice but to toil for it.

I take your general point. But how about looking at it another way? The state works for you, not the other way around. By voting the way you see fit, and by being free to chose whether you stick around or not (or go somewhere that fits your life philosophy better), you authorise the state to act in the interest of the state members.

So yes, I pay a lot of tax. More than my American brothers. But then, I get free healthcare, as do any of my friends and family who range from being hard up to comfortably well off. My garbage is recycled and cleared weekly. My streets and roads are maintained. My kids go to a decent state school. And the little punk down the road who has been smashing car windows gets his ass arrested and hauled into court. Man, I'm actually happy to let the state take MORE of my hard-earned cash to take on the big issues in life.

Call me naive, but I believe the purpose of government is to take care of us. And when they start abusing that trust, well... long live the revolution, bro.

You know, I've always fancied living in Australia.

Yes, let momma and pappa take care of us, wipe our butts for us and so on, but that means that they have the power, not the people! those who have the responsibility have the power! I am not willing to give up my responsibility for a little imagined security!

Originally Posted by Bruno

Speaking as someone who actually lives in a partially socialist country:
What the US is going to has nothing to do with socialism.....

True...I would bet 80%+ of Americans cannot even define Socialism...they just know that they are supposed to believe it is bad....a mentality left over from the 1950's.

Sadly, most Americans can't define the Republican or Democratic platforms either or tell you where each party originated.

One of the downfalls of a Democracy or a Republic is that the make up of the elected government is a reflection of the intellect of the constituency.....if you have ever watched "Jaywalking" on the "Tonight Show" (Jay Leno goes around to Americans on the street and asks them simple questions about current events, etc.).....many of the problems in D.C. become so clear. Combine that with the demand by media to know every detail about a candidate's life (beyond what would affect their ability to govern) and you get the collection of buffoons we have in our governments.

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

That's right because we are not going to allow it. F socialism or any collectivist mentality --- right up the bung hole. We don't need to trust you ---- Bruno, Belgium has a long way to go in the affairs of democratic rule before we trust it or any of its citizens. I think it is funny how a person raised under a socialist government would say "trust me" -- it is fitting and totally unAmerican --- which traditionally taught "trust yourself and your own will and your own abilities ---- don't trust people who say "trust me".

Justin

I think he was using "trust me" as a turn of phrase, not entreating everyone to place their trust in him....

Originally Posted by JMS

Yes, let momma and pappa take care of us, wipe our butts for us and so on, but that means that they have the power, not the people! those who have the responsibility have the power! I am not willing to give up my responsibility for a little imagined security!

I like the way you put things, Mark!

My mum stopped wiping my arse when I was 4, but even at 16 she still took care of me. It's not about extremes... the state derives its power through its structure, and that enables it to look after us in ways much more effective and efficient than each man acting on his own. In an invasion, we'd expect to see a state deploy an army to repel an attack. Without the state, it would just be a bunch of farmers with pitchforks trying defend their own land. Game over for Farmland in minutes.

And when we authorise the state to act in our interests, we're not absolving ourselves of any responsibility. That remains firmly in our control when we turn up and vote.

Unless they start cheating by counting hanging chads. (I'm kidding! )

Originally Posted by WireBeard

I think he was using "trust me" as a turn of phrase, not entreating everyone to place their trust in him....

I trust Bruno. He's a mod, after all. He's there as part of the SRP state to look after us all and moderate according to the SRP rules. He's been authorised to do so.

Hang on a second, I don't remember voting...

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

That's right because we are not going to allow it. F socialism or any collectivist mentality --- right up the bung hole. We don't need to trust you ---- Bruno, Belgium has a long way to go in the affairs of democratic rule before we trust it or any of its citizens. I think it is funny how a person raised under a socialist government would say "trust me" -- it is fitting and totally unAmerican --- which traditionally taught "trust yourself and your own will and your own abilities ---- don't trust people who say "trust me".

Justin

Also, if you have ever belonged to a labor union, collected unemployment insurance, are a woman who has voted, are a minority who has voted, were poor but got into college on a scholarship, or have your bank deposits covered by the FDIC, or have enjoyed the benefits of most of what we now consider normal government-funded programs, you are partaking of socialism. Don't believe it? Look at the politics of most of the originators of these ideas. Again, Americans know so little about their history and next to nothing about the history beyond the borders of the US, that it is frightening....and you get what we have now in government and in the White House. Americans view "socialism" as the government taking money out of their pockets to give it to people they don't think deserve it. They argue they "real Americans" make it on their own. So I guess all the poor and starving during the Depression (caused by rampant, unregulated capitalism) were not "real Americans." The closest the US ever came to even touch on the edge of Socialism was under FDR. Socialism and Communism are not even close to the same thing.

We need serious leaders, not comic-book hero wannabes....we need a more intelligent platform than "Vote for us or the terrorists are going to blow up the malls and married gays are going to move in next door to you and make up give up your SUV!"

After the Russian Revolution, there was a general (a "communist") who was asked a question about individuals who felt they should not have to join in manual labor to complete some project....his response was "To ne rabotaet, ne est'" (Those who won't work, won't eat!)...now to me, he sounds like a Republican.

Originally Posted by WireBeard

I think he was using "trust me" as a turn of phrase, not entreating everyone to place their trust in him....

I know this and I know Bruno well enough (I consider him a friend) to use his statement to make a point ---- I don't think he really thought all of America would change government philosophy because one nice guy from Belgium said so ----

Justin

Originally Posted by DEwey

Another point of the Repubs is using government money and favors to benefit certain businesses, while they say that they are keeping govenment unintrusive. It's not unintrusive to favor some companies over others with tax incentives and outright cash. There is a frightening trend for local municipalities to enthusiastically engage in this kind of behavior. Example: The Dallas Cowboys stadium in Arlington where I live. Tax money going to a billionaire. ).

Good point.

Norm

The government is there to serve its people...most of the folks in politics have forgotten that....

May favorite quote is:

Governments should fear their people; people should not fear their governments.

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

I know this and I know Bruno well enough (I consider him a friend) to use his statement to make a point ---- I don't think he really thought all of America would change government philosophy because one nice guy from Belgium said so ----

Justin

I don't know....if he marketed it correctly and made everyone afraid of their shadow, it may work...it has for the last few elections.......