Thread: The laws of men

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Nonsense is just a dressed up word for bulls**t.

Yes that's true - hopefully a slightly more polite word but the meaning is essentially the same. But let me ask you a question: suppose I'd said that neo-Keynesianism was nonsense, would you have claimed that was spiteful?

Most people wouldn't, they might challenge me to justify it but they wouldn't find it offensive. The problem is the double standard believers expect others to respect.

Originally Posted by trewornan

Yes that's true - hopefully a slightly more polite word but the meaning is essentially the same. But let me ask you a question: suppose I'd said that neo-Keynesianism was nonsense, would you have claimed that was spiteful?

Most people wouldn't, they might challenge me to justify it but they wouldn't find it offensive. The problem is the double standard believers expect others to respect.

Yeah, because you are still expressing an opinion rather than a well reasoned argument. I would think that any sort of name-calling of a belief system not your own is the sort of incendiary comment that leads to a lot of resentment. If you were to show up and say, "I believe that religion Z is fallacious, for relevant reasons X and Y" I think folks would attach a bit more credence to what you say.

Why? Because many people have a lot of their self image invested in their religion, and to them, insulting their religion (yes, insulting, not rationally arguing) is about as inoffensive as walking up and calling them an asshole for no reason.

Originally Posted by jockeys

Yeah, because you are still expressing an opinion rather than a well reasoned argument.

Indeed. I don't mind reasoning at all.

Even a "I think religion is nonsense because I don't believe in anything that I can't see" would be better. Simply stating an negative opinion about something that another person holds dear without reasoning or backup is something that I consider spitefull and sometimes offensive.

Originally Posted by trewornan

Yes that's true - hopefully a slightly more polite word but the meaning is essentially the same. But let me ask you a question: suppose I'd said that neo-Keynesianism was nonsense, would you have claimed that was spiteful?

Most people wouldn't, they might challenge me to justify it but they wouldn't find it offensive. The problem is the double standard believers expect others to respect.

As for the double standard. I don't have a double standard like that. Therefore I'll also never be telling someone that doesn't agree with me that he's believing in something that's nonsense. Hence I expect the same...(damn..there's that word again...) courtisy (spelling? anyone? I know it's not right...but I can't remember what it should look like.)

I'll treat you like a normal person for NOT believing in a higher power....please do me the same favor even though I DO believe in a higher power.

Originally Posted by jockeys

trying to point out some of the ridiculous stuff that Levitical law allows/forbids is kind of beating a dead horse, since most modern Christians think the sacrifice and resurrection invalidated or overrode it.

Of course I'm aware of this but it's just another example of how most Christians in fact pick and choose which parts of the bible to believe. After all in the New Testament Jesus himself says all the rules of the Old Testament still apply.

E.g.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

I could write a bit more about that subject. But that bit wasn't what bothered me. What bothered me is that you passed opinion off as fact. When it is in fact....opinion.

That's what I found was rude.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

you passed opinion off as fact

I can see why, from your perspective that would appear to be the case. From my perspective it simply IS fact.

And from my perspective is ISN'T. So how about we respect each other's opinion and at least ADMIT the fact that it's your opinion. Because since there isn't proof either way. (you can't prove anything about either statement) it's called opinion or at least hypotheses.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

how about we respect each other's opinion

I do respect your opinion, at least you're prepared to say what you think and stand by it.

Originally Posted by trewornan

Of course I'm aware of this but it's just another example of how most Christians in fact pick and choose which parts of the bible to believe. After all in the New Testament Jesus himself says all the rules of the Old Testament still apply.

E.g.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

Talk about picking and choosing!
Trewornan, try reading the passage just before this one and it puts a whole new slant on Matthew 5:18!
To put it simply, you are just as guilty of what you accuse christians of!

5:17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

If you ask me this passage says Jesus came to fulfill the law and all laws are in full force until Jesus accomplishes what he came to accomplish!