Knives, rights, etc.

[jockeys]

with all the fuss going on in the 2nd Amendment thread, I thought I'd post up a link to a story I read this morning:
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Jail knife carriers, says Cameron

Now, to most of my American shaving brothers this seems kind of silly, but is it a cultural thing? Are you shavers across the pond miffed at all?

Discuss away!

[nun2sharp]

Well, once they take your guns..... It reminds me of an old episode of All in the family, when Archie and Gloria are arguing over gun control and Archie makes the point" Would it make you feel better if they were thrown out windows?", Crime is going to happen, no matter what. What gets my attention is that the politicians are out to disarm the honest man, knowing full well the criminal will do as he pleases. The masses, unarmed and vulnerable, seems to be the goal.

[Gatesy]

Well it's the classic "Criminalize knives and only criminals will have knives" actually I think they sai it about guns but its the same concept. The only people who care about the law are the law abiding citizens. Therefore with that in mind an armed robber isn't going to care if it's illegal to have a knife.

As someone who hopes to be a IL trooper some day, I think people should be allowed to carry weapons because police can't always get there fast enough.

[Bruno]

Otoh the knifings in London are getting way out of hand, and there is a big problem with youth violence.
Taking away knives is not a solution by itself, but if you would live in London, you'd have a better undersanding of why they don't want people to carry them.
You can carry < 3inch non locking folders, which is what I did.

I was in London a couple of weeks ago, and talked witha couple of people there. In the tourist center it is ok, but in the burbs there is a rising level of random rage and insecurity. On the whole, I think the situation needs defusing. I don't see an arms race as the solution.

Also, this touches on a cultural difference.
In the US it is normal to carry weapons for the purpose of defense. In most European countries this is considered abnormal unless you have a specific reason (jeweler, money transport, ...)
For example, I carry a locking spyderco delica as a tool for any situation where you'd use something sharp. I don't carry it for self defense.

Over here, the legality of carrying a knife is determined by the officer who stops you, depending on the context of the situation.
Carrying a swiss army knife will never cause you problems, and neither should carrying a spyderco (although you might have to explain why you carry it). Otoh, you'd better not try to visit a courtroom with it.
And carrying a bowie knife is perfectly ok if you are a forest ranger in your work environment, but walking around on the street with that knife in your coat without a specific purpose will get you arrested.

So I agree to some extent with the knife laws. Knives that have non-violent use are perfectly reasonable in my eyes, but combat knifes and othe rknives with primarily a violent purpose are not necessary.
This is the cultural difference again.

[gatorfan]

Just like the saying goes:

"Guns (or knives, hammers, lawn tools ,insert your weapon of choice here...) don't kill people, people kill people."

Just my two cents.

[jockeys]

Knives that have non-violent use are perfectly reasonable in my eyes, but combat knifes and othe rknives with primarily a violent purpose are not necessary.

isn't the purpose of every knife to cut something? isn't the thing that gets cut always at the discretion of the user?

as an example, observe the US Marines. some of the most highly-trained knife fighters in the world. they do not carry some special, tactical, high-speed low-drag combat knife. they carry an ordinary hunting knife, the design of which is 110 years old. as they say here in Texas, "it ain't the song, it's the singer."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka-bar

[Brother Jeeter]

Over here, the legality of carrying a knife is determined by the officer who stops you, depending on the context of the situation.

Bruno


WOW! I consider that concept to be ludicrous! The law should be the law regardless of who the arresting officer is, or the part of the block you happen to be walking in! It's called Consistancy! How else can a person know what the law might be across the street, on Wednesday?
I have carried pocket knives since I was about ten years old. I carried them while I was in school...I carried them TO school. Many times one teacher, or another, borrowed my knife, used it and returned it.
Now even in the USA, a person cannot cary a knife into a Courthouse, Jail, or any other Government building. Schools? Forget it! No knives in schools.
It appears to me that the idea is the disarming of EVERY law abiding citizen on Earth. Take away guns, take away knives and the taxpayer is at the mercy of criminals EVERYWHERE! We won't be safe in our houses, on the subway, in the Park, or anywhere else at all, ever.
Those who pull the strings are trying to create a world full of "SHEEPLE." They are more easily controlled that way. I just hope I don't live long enough to see it all happen.

It's the old "Somebody MIGHT get hurt" argument. Personally, I'm willing to take my chances!

Jeeter

[hoglahoo]

The law should be the law regardless of who the arresting officer is, or the part of the block you happen to be walking in! It's called Consistancy! How else can a person know what the law might be across the street, on Wednesday?

The idea brother jeeter, is that you can trust the government to make the right decisions for everyone's good

[Bruno]

@Jeeter

I'm not saying I always agree, but this is what it is. Let's for the moment forego the debate, but (for now) simply accept that over here, knives (and even guns) are considered for non-violent use only.
With that concept in mind, the laws make sense. Take the bowie knife example i mentioned.
That knife on a forest ranger in his work environment is clearly intended for non-violent use.
The same knife on an F-side soccer hooligan during anderlecht - Standard is clearly intended for violent purposes, hence the owner is subject to arrest.

I agree that this leaves your treatment up to the officer who is making the decision. And you are right. That is not a good situation. But on the premise that knives are only meant for non-violent use, it makes sense.

And like you, I have carried knives since I was 10. Actually, I think I was 6 when I got my first penknife, but I didn't start carrying one habitually until I was 13 or so.
These days I always carry. A knife is one of the things I check for when I leave the house.
Not for defense purposes, but simply because a good pocketknife is such a versatile tool to carry.

[Spike J]

Given Mr Cameron's comments today. I was wondering when, or if, someone would start a thread on this. Thankyou very much jockeys for saving me the trouble

What is being suggested is utterly absurd. Not only would it be so in any country but in Britain especially. Why? Because imprisoning someone for carrying a tool is stupid. It becomes monumentally so when your prisons are so overcrowded that prisoners are being released a minimum of 18 days before the end of their sentence. Our government & opposition are very keen on headline grabbing lunacies like this. "Oh I know, let's criminalise another section of society, so that our lack of vision & mismangement of resources aren't first item on the news." For instance, Godawful Brownstuff saying this morning that the increase in food prices is because we're all wasting so much food. I will even not dignify that with a response

Apologies for the rant...

I agree with Gatorfan. Knives etc don't kill people, people do. If you're minded to hurt someone, you'll find the weapon. I worked as a nurse in ER for 10 years & was attacked 38 times & stabbed three times. Once with a kitchen knife, once with a craft knife & once with a shard of glass, none of which would be classified as illegal. Granted each assailant got a lot more than they gave, but my point stands.

Our cousins seem to be a lot more concerned about the government disarming us. It doesn't bother me. If I needed a really offensive weapon which could kill silently at 400 yards & is not in any way illegal, I would walk 200 yards to our local woods & a couple of hours later have my self one. It's called a longbow & I was taught how to make one by my grandfather. By law, I am meant to practice with it for one hour a week. By law

The problem, IMHO, if this idiocy should come to pass, is enforcement. What would prevent some bored & vindictive bobby planting a blade on some unfortunate? There seem to be plenty of them about. I do not trust our government & unelected Prime Minister. I did not vote for them. I certainly do not trust them to make the correct decisions for me. It is just one more restriction on our lives because they refuse to tackle the causes of the problems & jeopardise our lives because of their lazy quick fit non-solutions.

Just my ha'p'orth

PS I don't mean to impugne that honour of any cops here, but I have had some horrendous experiences with less than honest coppers, both personally & professionally.

I carry a Leatherman 24/7