Thread: Knives, rights, etc.

I voted just like verybody else has so far....to carry a knife seems a normal part of everyday life. As an Ohio State Trooper, I get tired of these unctuous politicians disarming us and claiming that the police are behind them every step of the way....this is not true. Well, mostly not true. The only "police officers" who would be in favor of stricter gun/weapons laws are the ones who are in charge of the departments or agencies....and in my opinion, these types are just politicians in uniform.

I'm not trying to rant here, but when common sense has gone the ways of the dinosaurs, wouldn't that mean that the inmates are running the asylum?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

The idea brother jeeter, is that you can trust the government to make the right decisions for everyone's good

I agree with you Hog, but honestly - do you trust your government? Do you trust your government to do what is in *your* best interests? Perhaps I am just paranoid, and perhaps I am just one of those conspiracy theory fools who believes that it is my right and obligation as a citizen to take arms against tyranny - but I believe that any government who wishes to disarm their people do so not to protect the people, but that *system* of government from attack and coup. They can argue all that they want about "protecting the people" from gun violence and knife violence or what have you, but I think it is the protection of the status quo that is the core issue. I am, as are many on this board, the alleged cause of corruption, racism, hatred, and the enslavement of mankind (being a white, middle class male) - I am told that I hold the keys to power, that I am favored, that I am a "good old boy" in a system I have created to pander to me. I am led to believe that I have most of the wealth, most of the education, I create glass ceilings and repress females and the poorer races and ethnicities...How many of you other WM out there feel this way? Feel like you have any power over your destiny, feel like you can count on the police to protect you some how better because of where you live or your color or your education, or that your money will mean dick to a prosecutor when the case comes to trial over the death of your wife at the hands of a mugger? Do you really feel like you run things, or ever have? No, I didn't think so. Our government isn't going to help you until after it is too late, and they are really good at cleaning up.

Guns are dangerous, so are knives, so are baseball bats and tent poles. Man will find some way to kill each other, it will be with rocks if that is all we have - a sad testament to our species. I don't carry a weapon because I like to, I carry one because, as my friend Clint Smith says, "I am not going to let *that* person (criminal with a gun and bad intent) decide when it is time for *me* to die- and I certainly am not going to die for lack of shooting back."

Sorry, didn't mean for that to be too long.

Now I go back to lurking...

K

Originally Posted by Kriton

I believe that any government who wishes to disarm their people do so not to protect the people, but that *system* of government from attack and coup.

But Kriton, you and I are the government Can we not trust ourselves?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

But Kriton, you and I are the government Can we not trust ourselves?

No government can ever be trusted. Ever. That's why democracy was invented, so that we could replace our rulers if they step out of line.

Yeah right

Please consider that the US is the only country I know of where there is something like a 2nd amendement to insure that the people can overthrow the government. In theory at least.

In no other country that I know of do the majority of the citizens expect that it is something that is needed. 2nd amendement type arguments are never considered in Europe.
You try and take up arms against the government, and you end up in jail.

Interestingly enough, the same happens in the US, which makes me wonder why there is a 2nd amendement in the first place. Because if a government becomes tyrannical, they are hardly going to care about your funcdamental right to overthrow them.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Also, this touches on a cultural difference.
In the US it is normal to carry weapons for the purpose of defense. In most European countries this is considered abnormal unless you have a specific reason (jeweler, money transport, ...)
For example, I carry a locking spyderco delica as a tool for any situation where you'd use something sharp. I don't carry it for self defense.

Over here, the legality of carrying a knife is determined by the officer who stops you, depending on the context of the situation.
Carrying a swiss army knife will never cause you problems, and neither should carrying a spyderco (although you might have to explain why you carry it). Otoh, you'd better not try to visit a courtroom with it.
And carrying a bowie knife is perfectly ok if you are a forest ranger in your work environment, but walking around on the street with that knife in your coat without a specific purpose will get you arrested.

Here it can be the same, You can carry a folding knife up to a certain size, in some states switchblades are illegal, and larger fixed blade knives are not supposed to be carried concealed. So the likelyhood of someone carrying a Bowie knife is pretty slim.
Also once you sit down in your car with the Bowie, it's considered a concealed weapon, and the police can arrest you. You would have to lock it in your trunk.

Disarming the people will not stop violent crime, a determined attacker will find or make a weapon. What's the next logical step? outlawing kitchen knives and Cricket bats?

I ALWAYS carry a knife with me. Most of the time even two. My leatherman and my folding knife. You never know when you need it and I'm not even thinking about situations where I'd have to defend myself. Take the utterly dull blades in the cafeteria at university. You have to bring your own knife to cut the meat, the ones they provide are useless. Or how about sharpening pencils? Or cutting mushrooms when going out for a walk? No sir, they're never gonna take my knife away from me!

Dearest Bruno, when things get bad enough hopefully there will be enough men of like mind/spirit to do the job again. These people must be armed or despotism will reign, it will be absolute and irreversible. As for europe, I believe it is the idea of American Style Revolution and Independence that keeps European rulers on thier best behavior as there would be many of us in the US that would be inclined to finance and arm our families/friends in the old countries.

Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

Disarming the people will not stop violent crime, a determined attacker will find or make a weapon. What's the next logical step? outlawing kitchen knives and Cricket bats?

If they tried to outlaw cricket bats, the revolution would start. Probably at Lords or the Oval. (Cricket grounds in central London & pillars of the establishment btw)

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Dearest Bruno, when things get bad enough hopefully there will be enough men of like mind/spirit to do the job again. These people must be armed or despotism will reign, it will be absolute and irreversible. As for europe, I believe it is the idea of American Style Revolution and Independence that keeps European rulers on thier best behavior as there would be many of us in the US that would be inclined to finance and arm our families/friends in the old countries.

Thankyou Nun! We may take you up on it in the near future. I would lead the revolution tomorrow, save for my fellow countymen's apathy about our misgovernment. The buggers have already outlawed firearms of any description, watch us constantly on CCTV & remove the right to be charged or a lawyer & claim it is "for our own security". We fought a dirty, despicable war in Ireland for 30 years & we didn't need such measures. Now some Arabs have tried to revisit on us what we have been doing to them for a couple of centuries & we have "Islamists". It just gives them an excuse to further frighten the population & clamp down.

Gearge Orwell was only 30 years out

Bruno,

The reason that this section is in our constitution is because the US was founded as a result of a coup, a few bunch of folks that believed that tyranny should be overthrown, and by violence if necessary. From the writings they left, they all knew that it was likely to end badly, and the fact that we won the Revolution is really a miracle if you read the history -

Look, am I fomenting uprising, no. There are a lot of things our government as a whole does well, and I firmly believe (having seen a good part of the world) that it is the greatest country on the planet, and no place else I would rather be...that being said, if the democratic process does not work, is repressed, is raped - then our founding fathers believed that it is the right, nay, the obligation, of a citizen to revolt. I am all over the democratic process, but when one man-one vote is replaced by the "electoral college" with the idea that ordinary people aren't smart enough to cast a vote that is so important, when the process is rigged and politicized to death, then the change must and will be made - with the understanding that I am a Texas conservative, I am incredibly wary of the power that our government has enshrouded in the cloak of "national security" and I think all citizens who believe in "innocence until proven guilt" and the rule of law over tyrannical self absorption should carefully scrutinize every move, and every statement of their government - whatever continent you are on - or you are truly the "sheeple" referenced earlier, and will surely be fleeced.

I was (still am) involved in that whole FLDS mess in Eldorado - and though I didn't agree with what those folks believe(or certainly what they do), the way that was handled was ludicrous, and incredibly damaging to some of those children, because *our* government figured they knew better than anyone else how and what to do. I have to believe in the rule of law without which we would be savages, but when that is just trampled in the name of expediency, then we are in real trouble here. That is the stuff that makes me questions the wisdom of the those in charge - and while I will move to change things with my vote, that process does not erase the inequities fast enough. Do it to enough people, for a long enough period of time, and you will have your revolt.

Now what the hell was I saying?

K