Thread: Abortion: split from stem cell research

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

Wait, is this the "Yankees are a better franchise than Manchester United: Discuss" thread?

It seems like it is turning into the "Let's throw the baby out with the bathwater" thread

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

But smokelaw was quoted, not me - Hutch are you trying to confuse us?

No its about 10 posts back.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

It seems like it is turning into the "Let's throw the baby out with the bathwater" thread

But at what point did that water BECOME bathwater? In the faucet? Once suds are added?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

The argument for "in cases of rape, incest" is often the one championed by the pro-abortion side as a monkey wrench to throw into the works.

It is a difficult position, to be sure.

But I ask this: why is the fetus of such circumstances the one to pay the capital punishment for the crime? They are not the ones who made the offense!

If you instead want to put to death the actual perpetrator of rape and incest, not the child created, who is blameless, then you'd have my support for such a measure.

I don't think you'd find a majority of woman who would want to have a baby by a rapist.

I agree it as an argument that is often brought up by the pro-choice supporters, because it shows a short sighted calusness of the pro-lifer movement that think in total black and white.

Originally Posted by Hutch

I don't think you'd find a majority of woman who would want to have a baby by a rapist.

I agree it as an argument that is often brought up by the pro-choice supporters, because it shows a short sighted calusness of the pro-lifer movement that think in total black and white.

An assault victim may not want to endure the recovery process from injuries obtained at the hands of an assailant, but they will have to regardless.

A murder victim is never able to recover from the results of the crime.

Being a victim is not a fair proposition to begin with.




Again, I find it a flawed argumant to say that because of the minority of cases that abortion should be made available "on demand" for anybody?



I found this:

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

How can it be proved that it is murder if every party involved claims ignorance of the individual humanity of the unborn that was aborted?

this is the essential point. it's life, and it's horrific to kill it on the theory it might not be human, but that doesn't mean the nuances aren't captured in how you view the act of abortion.

I must say that upon personal experience of seeing the heartbeat of my first child via ultrasound at only 6 weeks of gestation absolutely blew me away!

Originally Posted by Seraphim

An assault victim may not want to endure the recovery process from injuries obtained at the hands of an assailant, but they will have to regardless.

A murder victim is never able to recover from the results of the crime.

Being a victim is not a fair proposition to begin with.




Again, I find it a flawed argumant to say that because of the minority of cases that abortion should be made available "on demand" for anybody?



I found this:

I don't find the poster all that persausive. No one had suggested that all cases of rape or incest where a child is conceived should be ended in abortion for starters. Everytime you see a child do you think of all the blastocysts and embryos that were spontaneously aborted? Had she been aborted that's what it would have been, assigningbgood things to all those that weren't aborted is as silly as assignin bad evil things to those that were abort. What about a poster with Hitler saying my mom was going to have an abortion but didn't?

Originally Posted by Hutch

I don't find the poster all that persausive. No one had suggested that all cases of rape or incest where a child is conceived should be ended in abortion for starters. Everytime you see a child do you think of all the blastocysts and embryos that were spontaneously aborted? Had she been aborted that's what it would have been, assigningbgood things to all those that weren't aborted is as silly as assignin bad evil things to those that were abort. What about a poster with Hitler saying my mom was going to have an abortion but didn't?

Interesting take on it, I suppose.

Aren't people presumed innocent until proven guilty? i.e.- why assume that the unborn would grow up to be Hitler, and thus justify killing them off to begin with?



And yes, when I look at my children I do think about all of the blatocysts, etc that came before, as my wife and I were told that we would not be able to have any children. Thus I am well aware of what a remarkable difference there is between an unfertilized ovum/non-viable embryo, and one that is.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Interesting take on it, I suppose.

Aren't people presumed innocent until proven guilty? i.e.- why assume that the unborn would grow up to be Hitler, and thus justify killing them off to begin with?



And yes, when I look at my children I do think about all of the blatocysts, etc that came before, as my wife and I were told that we would not be able to have any children. Thus I am well aware of what a remarkable difference there is between an unfertilized ovum/non-viable embryo, and one that is.

Is that what I said, I don't think so " assigning good things to all those that weren't aborted is as silly as assigning bad evil things to those that were abort." I believe that states exactly what I meant that you have either misread or failed to understand. It means I don't believe in assigning good nor evil to a fetus, mainly because again a fetus is not a person.

I'm glad you were able to have a child after choosing to do so.

I must say this has been an interesting discussion.